1966 Leavens brothers Mariner Help

[dstroud1987]

I already started a thread on this project about a month ago, but i couldnt get the pics to post right so i figured i would re start it today. Here are some pics of the boat we bought. As it says in the title, its a 1965 leavens brothers mariner with a 1962 40hp johnson on it. The boat hasnt been in the water in 2 years, but apparently the motor was running just fine back then. Me and my girlfriend dont know much about boats, so we could use all the help that we can get.

We only paid 450$ for the boat trailer and motor, and we want to try and restore it without going broke. We figured that the floor and transom were going to need work, but we dont really know much about the transom.

Anyways, let me know what you think.

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

ok, so we gutted all the all the wood and seats out of there so we could take a look at the condition of the floor and transom. once we got the carpet ripped out it was clear that we had to replace the back half of the floor (the front half looked good). I am a little bit worried about the transom though.. when i wiggled the motor there didnt seem to be much play in the fiberglass so i thought that was a good thing.. i noticed that it had some horizontal cracks in the fiberglass on the inside so i thought id post it in my pics so you guys could take a look and let me know what you think. The outside of the transom doesnt show any obvious ware in the fiberglass so i am hoping i can get away with waiting until next year to do it.

anyways let me know what you think.. and as always, any advise is greatly appreciated.

 

[62 ROYAL SCOTT]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

HELLO and looks like a nice boat ENJOY

 

[BansheeVision]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Just a posting tip to get you going - you can post pics directly into your thread by...
While in photobucket hover mouse over the thumbnail you want to include - the Share/Copy dialog will popup
in the 'img code' box - left click - it will flash 'copied'
goto your thread here and right click where you want the pic to appear in your post. - select paste -
The html code to extract the pic from photobucket will be written into your post.

This way people wont have to sit through the ads on p-bucket to see your work.

Your Boat...

You can also post pics directly from your PC by clicking the 'insert image' button. Its the square one with the tree looking thing in the tool bar right above where you are typing. These will appear as thumbnails that enlarge when clicked on.
My Boat...


I hope this helps you out - if its easier for people to see your pics - you are likely to get more help along the way.

 

[BansheeVision]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

OK to your question - It looks like the mounting bolts are too short and the nuts have been tightened until they have sunk into the wood. One of them appears quite embedded indicating the transom was soft there at some point. You should have at a minimum some LARGE washers on the inside and the bolts should be installed with silicone calking. I would keep an eye out for an 1/8 inch aluminum plate maybe 4 to 5 inches wide and maybe 1/2 the width of the transom to mount through. Have you had the motor off yet? Once you take it off you can get a better look. If you are still unsure the next step would be to drill into the transom to take some exploratory core samples. Take a small drill bit and wrap masking tape around it to use as a depth guide set at about 1/2 the thickness of the transom. Drill a few holes from the inside(no need to go nuts) in your suspect/most likely to be bad areas and pay careful attention to the shavings coming out. You will know the difference between good wood and bad. Even with a boat that small it is likely that the transom is a laminate of two pieces of plywood with fiberglass in the center, so don't be confused if you see some of that coming out - you are looking for rotten wood(or hopefully the lack of it). As for the horizontal cracking - I had 2 60's boats - both had solid transoms - both looked like that. I suspect it is just the resin cracking over time where they piled it on thick. Your boat is 47 years old!

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Thanks a lot for your help Banshee.. I seemed to have a lot of problems posting good pics until now.

so i had a quick question for you guys.. I have removed the fiberglass from the back half of the boat that needs a new floor and i was wondering if you think its ok to leave the fiberglass on the rest of the floor.. and then i figured i would put a layer a fiberglass on the new wood.. and then once that dries i thought i would put a layer over the entire boat floor. Do you think it would be more wise to cust the fiberglass off the entire floor and just re glass the whole thing?

let me know what you think.

Thank you

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

also does anyone have know a lot about the stingers? I havent ripped up the wood yet but i noticed where it is rotted away at the back that the stingers seem to be made out of hallow fiberglass? That just seems a little odd to me because i didnt think that it would be able to support the plywood with people on it. so is this a common thing in these kind of boats? I'll try and get some photos up a little later so you can really see what im talking about.. I am at work right now so it'll take a little time lol

 

[BansheeVision]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

There are many threads here with extensive information on stringer and hull repair. There are also many different designs various manufacturers used to do the stringers in their boats. I'm guessing your boat is about 15'. If so, then with 2 people, 2 6gl gas tanks, battery, usual boating gear, and a cooler your boat would be more or less fully loaded. I would not be surprised if your boat was constricted with a hollow fiberglass box type stringer design. FG is very strong and I doubt the vertical stringer height is more than just a few inches. With the relative light deck loading and the short distance the stringers have to rise from the hull, the stringers very well could have been constructed without a wood core. There is no need to remove the glass from over the section of floor you are not replacing if it is good. You will have to prep it before glassing over it(basically scuffing and cleaning).

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

yeah, its a 15 foot boat. Once i got the floor removed i noticed that the stingers do have a wood center and they were actually in good shape so that was good news. I noticed that the old plywood was glued down with something because a lot of the wood got left behind on the stingers. Does anyone know if that is a common thing to do? i plan on putting some sort of adhesive back down before i screw in the new floor.. do you think i should do that or is just a waste of time?

This is the pic right after we removed the floor..

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

as you can see by the job that my girlfriend and I did, we are not very good at cutting wood yet lol the new chunk of floor that we put in actually went pretty good.. its just that i forgot to fix the bad cut i did right when i removed the floor..so now we have a nice little gap happening that i thought i would ask some people on their opinions for what i could do to fix this.

As you can see.. its a pretty sad cut lol

I know, its pretty sad lol would i be best to just cut an entire new piece and start fresh?

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

I just had a couple more questions for any of you people that might be willing to help. The windshield seems to have had something dropped on it so theres a nice sized dent in the frame near the middle. I am going to make an attempt to fix it soon.. but my question to you guys is how much does one of these go far? I thought i would buy a new one at first, but i havent been able to find a place to buy new or used ones.. or have one built. if anyone has an idea what it would cost to build one of them? or any strategies to fix this one? i would appreciate any help.

not too sure if you can see what I'm talking about..

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

ok, this is my final question...for now anyways lol

I am going to try and fire up the motor for the first time tomorrow (first time starting this motor, or any boat botor for that fact) and i have a funny question. I know you're not supposed to run a boat motor dry, but how big does by bucket of water have to be? like where are the holes that suck the water in located? i know that sounds like a rediculous question.. i just dont want to screw anything up lol

Is it the two small hole right there there are supposed to be under water?

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Hi dstroud. Looks like you're making good progress. As far as the start up procedure goes, there's really not much to it. You're right that you NEVER want to run motors dry. These older vintage models can't run on muffs either, so you'll need to submerge the lower unit in water up to the limit I've shown in the attached pic. A 55 gallon drum works best, if you can find one. Once the lower unit is properly submerged you'll then want to manually pump the primer bulb in the fuel line until feel/hear fuel running through it. You'll then want to apply the CHOKE to the motor. It may be either manual, or electric and is usually only needed for the first few cold stars of the day. Once the motor is warmed up, you shouldn't have to use it much. Once he fuel line is primed, and the choke engaged you can start the motor using the key ignition. If everything is working properly, it should fire right up with very little effort. My old 33 hp would start with just the slightest bump to the key. Once the motor stars, you can disengage the choke and let the motor drop down to it's natural idle. Don't be alarmed if the motor smokes a lot and clouds up the water in the test tank. It will also leave an oily residue on top of the water, but that's normal and will go away on the open water. I believe you model can run on 50:1 mix, but I've always run my motors of similar vintage on 24:1 to be safe. Champion J6C plugs are best too. Here are some links to help you dial in the carb and trouble shoot any problems you may have. Also, these older motors don't have a "pee stream" like there modern cousins. Instead, the exhaust gas is mixed with water from the cooling system and expelled out of the back of the motor.


http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/columns/max/24/index.cfm

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Thanks for the help KFA.. Your diagram helps a lot. Just to make 100% sure.. i dont need to cover those 2 holes under the main exhaust with water then? are those 2 smaller holes also going to have water coming out of them once its fired up? I decided not to start it today because i got called into work early... i'll get it fired up some time this week and i film a video so you can let me know what you think while its running.. thanks again for your help so far!

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

ok, so im back with a few more questions lol.

So i noticed that there was about a 1 foot spot on the middle stinger that has been rotted out.. and one of the fiberglass supports that hold the wood up broke off. I relly didnt think that it would be designed like that that so i was a bit surprised when i cut the fiberglass off of the wood.

this is a pic of the support that broke.. this is what the wood stinger would sit on.. and i deas on hot to replace that support???

This is a pic the opposite way of the wood stinger thats rotten.. i thought the wood was going to be thicker.. is this stinger setup pretty normal??

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

anyone have any ideas or advise?

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

HI ds. For starters, you don't want to cover any of the exhaust ports with water, but you do want water up to about an inch or two below them. The support in the boat you mentioned are called "stringers" and believe it or not the wood you found in there is about the right size. The fiberglass does the structural work once it cures, so it can/was put over all sorts of stuff to act as forms. Some boats even use paper tubes, like the kind found in toilet paper and paper towels rolls to act as forms that they would then apply the f'glass and resin over. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to fix it. If the stringers are rotten, and they probably are, you gotta cut them and all of the old f'glass out, then grind it all down smooth and rebuild the stringers and cover them with f'glass and resin. It's very, messy and involves lots of harsh chemicals, respirators, full body suits and other fun stuff. Mind you, it can be done, but it's a lot of work and one of the main reasons so many folks like aluminum (a.k.a. "tin" boats). You can fix anything on them with a hammer and duct tape: ) and they don't rot. There are tons of great threads of guys who have done fiberglass jobs beautifully, but do LOTS and LOTS of reading before here in the forunms you dive into that job. Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[dstroud1987]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

So is the wood only there to give the floor something to screw into? I was thinking of only taking the wood out to where the next support is because not a lot of it was rotted. Then I was going to replace that wood and just refiberglass the top that I cut off.. Or will that make the stringer not as strong as redoing the entire thing? I know a lot of these questions are probably on the forum but I only have a phone right now because my computer is broken
I have zero experience and I figure if I am going to do this.. Then I'm going to try my best to do it right.. So all your help is really appreciated

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Yes, the wood is there to give form to the f'glass while it cures in addition to giving something to screw the floor into. However, if there is ANY rot in the stringers, it will spread like a cancer and eventually get into any new wood you may add. There really is no, quick, cheap, easy fix. You have to remove ALL of the old wood and fiberglass and rebuild it from scratch :/ It's not rocket science, but it is messy. While a temporary fix may be tempting, it'll bite you in the butt in the long run and just isn't worth it. It may sound crazy, but you might want to look around for another, similarly styled aluminum hull. You should be able to find one for less than you might think (couple hundred bucks, or less) and you wouldn't have to bother with any of the nasty f'glass procedures. All you need to fix/maintain a tinny are rivets, aluminum stock and stainless steel hardware, all of which can be had at any Lowes/HD for cheap, unlike the f'glass supplies which aren't so cheap and generally have to be ordered, which just adds time money and hassle to the job. Just something to consider before you go any further.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Re: 1965 Leavens brothers Mariner Restoration

Depending on the amount of rot in your stringers, you can successfully "Sister" new wood into the existing stringers. However as KFA4303 has stated, you must ensure all of the rot is gone. If you have to cut out more of the stringer than you will have remaining then it's advisable to just remove it all and replace it. There is a lot to be said for both Aluminum and fibreglass boats. Repairing structural hull damage to an aluminum hull can be quite daunting for a DIY'er while it is really not that difficult to do with fiberglass. Punch a hole in an aluminum boat and try to repair it and make it look like new. That's gunna be a problem. Not so much with a glass boat. Not going to debate it here but, if you want to repair this boat to keep it for a lot of years, I'd recommend tearing it down all the way and starting with a clean slate. If you want to get on the water in a couple of months, then Yeah, you might want to look for a TIN Boat.