1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

[jond8]

Found this motor in the inlaw's garage. Been sitting cold for over 10 years. Just got her all tuned up and seems to be running fairly decent. Except, on the lake, it wants to do the ol' clutch dog clunk.

Something in the transmission got bad enough that it finally was stuck in forward (with the clunking still going on). I tried to shift to neutral at the motor with the cable disconnected and had no luck... until the motor was cool the next day.

So, I pulled apart the lower until and noticed that the clutch dog is pretty beat up on the forward teeth. And, that the forward gear was starting to wear a bit at the clutch teeth edge (otherwise looks great). I hope to post pics soon.

My questions:

1. Why would it stick in Forward

2. Can I use the reverse gear as the forward gear and vise versa. If I switch them, the gear with the dulled edge would be used for reverse (a less extreme torque application). Or, am I okay just running the same forward gear even though it's worn... Or, am I doomed to buy a new forward gear?

Your expertise is much appreciated.

Dog Damage:

Foward Gear:

Reverse Gear:

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

The gears can't be switched, but many flip the clutch dog around to use the often fresher reverse side to engage the forward gear.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

The gears can be switched by swapping the bushings. The forward gear bushing is pressed in. Press it out and back into the reverse and you're hot to go.

 

[jond8]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Uh....... uh oh.

I was able to push the bushings out of both gears by hand. One was a top hat style bushing, and the other was just a plain bushing. What should I do? Get new bushings ?

JB

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Nah, go ahead and use them. The gears I've seen are fluted differently on the ends of the shanks. Also, the reverse gear is bored for a loose fit and the forward gear is bored for a tight fit, so the rear bushing in a forward gear placed in back doesn't spin freely. I'm also concerned about changing the positions of the gears as a matter of wear. Many times, when you make a drastic change to how a used gearset's gears are in relation to eachother, they tear eachother apart rather quickly.

 

[jond8]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Do you think I should get new gear bushings while I'm in there?

Thanks!

JB

 

[F_R]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

The "top hat" is for the forward gear and is supposed to be a press fit. The reverse bushing is supposed to spin freely in the gear because the gear and shaft rotate in opposite directions while running in forward which is most of the time and at high speed.

Aslo, in forward gear, the gear, bushing, and shaft all rotate as one single unit so it doesn't matter much if it's loose except for it is their intention that the gear and timken bearing rotate together. If you are concerned, put a couple of drops of Loctite on the bushing before putting it into the gear.

Your gears look fairly good in the pictures. I suspect you have some shift rod linkage issues to deal with. Maybe a broken clevis or shift shaft at the top end??

 

[jond8]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Okay,

Sounds good. I'll use a dab of loctite or JB weld to keep the bushing in place.

The shift clevis looks pretty darn good. I am not sure about the shift rod. One thing I did notice was that, if you shift the transmission with the shift rod access plate off (outboard otherwise fully assembled), you can see that the rod does not go perfectly straight up and down. It has some forward and back motion to it as well... probably around 1/2"-3/4" at the shift rod coupling.

Does this sound consistant with your experinces... if not, do you think my shift rod(s) are bent?

Also, I was looking over the exploded view of the lower unit (attached) and I can't figure out how the drive shaft seals at the gear box.... seems like water could easily get into the gear box around the drive shaft bearings. Any idea why there is not a seal listed?

Thanks,

Jon B.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Some machine shops will true up the rounded off lobes of the shifter dog and the gears. Notice the ridges on one end of the shifter dog? That indicates that it must be installed one way only..... it can not be reversed. Check your manual to make sure which way it goes. If memory serves me correctly, the ridges face forward gear but check it to be sure.

Hint..... a couple light chisel marks in the OD of the forward gear bushing usually keeps it in place.... be sure to line up the oil hole if one exists in the bushing/gear.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

BTW, the oil on the gears looks pretty milky. Do you have LU seal issues also?

 

[jond8]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Update:

Got the lower unit all assembled last night... Took forever to get the top drive shaft seal and main prop seal changed... The seal bushings were fused to the cast aluminum case. Next time I will take the case into Seaway and have them do the job, as there must be special tools that I don't know about for seal removal.

Once everything was all together it seems to shift and turn properly.. But, once I install the lower unit onto the motor it still sticks in forward

Any ideas on why a manual shift would stick in forward? Keep in mind that the lower unit sifts fine if it is not installed on the motor and the upper linkage works great if the lower unit is not installed. Only when it is fully assembled is there trouble.

PLEASE HELP!!!

JB

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Weird. If both the upper and lower work well apart then it must be in the connection, linkage, rods, etc... Hard to check though as it's partly hidden...

 

[F_R]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

You have to be overlooking something. Grab hold of the shift rods in the connector port and see if there is any slop when you move the shift lever. When you move the lever, the rods must move too, with no lost motion or play. I still suspect something is loose or broken up at the top end.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

That makes more sense, it must be in the top end, the bellcrank or something under the powerhead... alotta work to look at though...

 

[jond8]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Hmmmmm... went out on lake and things were a little better... no clutch dog clunk, but there was the problem of sticking in forward still is there. It shifted for a little bit. But, then it failed to shift.

The upper portion of the linkage is soooo buried in the motor. That could be a show stopper. I will look at the play in the system, but this may turn into a forward only boat. May have to look into a Selectric Shift conversion.

JB

 

[jond8]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

This weekend I removed the lower unit again and began to play around with the shift linkages. I was able to isolate the problem to the top part of the linkage below the power head as I was able to get the linkage to bind with the lower unit off. Unfortunately it is very stuck and won't move out of the forward position at all now.

I took a look at the bolts holding the power head on.... I can guarantee that most of them will break if I try to remove them (they are rusted to hell). Other than this, how difficult is a power head removal?

The other option is to try to convert this to an electric shift lower unit.. has anyone heard of this being done successfully before? Did different HP seahorse models use the same lower units?

Or, I could set the lower unit to forward semi-permanently, reinstall it, and use the kicker for getting in and out of docking areas. And then try to fix this over the winter.

Any advice is very much appreciated.

You have to be overlooking something. Grab hold of the shift rods in the connector port and see if there is any slop when you move the shift lever. When you move the lever, the rods must move too, with no lost motion or play. I still suspect something is loose or broken up at the top end.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Personally I would never switch to an electic LU. They are hard to find, have their own issues and are more expensive to fix and parts are rare. (But others might disagree). I have a few of those early 60's 40hp's manual shifts and have not had the problem you have. Although I have not removed any of the powerheads, but usually it is a relatively easy job (on the smaller engines). My vote would be to removes the powerhead. Busted bolts would suck though so you'd have to make your own call. Can you post any pics of the underside of the powerhead?

 

[F_R]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

A switchover to electric shift is possible, but not too practical. In addition to a good lower unit, you would need the electric control with the VERY expensive shift switch. And unless you are into short trips only, you need a generator kit.

I can't make the judgement call on the powerhead removal, but they usually come off pretty well in my past experience. I've even had to use a 12MM socket to get the rusted-away 1/2" bolts out. Hopefully, the outside rust might be worse than the inside rust. The rest is fairly easy.

I have seen the shift shaft break, that is the aluminum cross-shaft that goes across under the powerhead, and I have seen the bellcrank lever that goes into the shift shaft break more often. Of course, I can't tell you what is wrong till you take a look-see. We can assume it's not the shifter handle frozen in the lower pan, right?

 

[jond8]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Thanks all for the thoughts guys...

It's official, I won't convert to E-shift....

As far as I can tell, something is stuck in the upper part of the motor/exhaust housing near the pivot. I can see no problems with the shift rod looking up from the bottom of the motor (keep in mind that the lower unit is off when I am doing this testing, so when I speak of the shift rod, it is the top one).

One interesting thing: When I reach my fingers thought the shift linkage access port I can grab a hold of the upper shift rod. When I check the amount of axial play it has with the external cable sift lever all the way forward there is around 1/8" of axial play (up and down). When I try to shift into neutral the external cable shift lever stops moving after about 1/2" of throw. When I bind it up like this, there is NO play whatsoever in the shift rod (again, in the axial direction). Does this indicate anything specific?

Also, there is a zirk above the bearing at the sift pivot shaft on the motor casing. Would it help to pump that guy full, or is it non-related?

Lastly, after replacing the clutch dog I replaced the gearbox fasteners with nice cap head SS machine screws and lock washers. Of course now I have oil leaking out from around them as a lock washer isn't going to seal well (oops, my bad). I am thinking about ordering some two piece sealing washers (stainless/rubber) from Mc Master Carr. Any other suggestions on how to fix this problem? Do people usually just use tons of sealant goop?

A switchover to electric shift is possible, but not too practical. In addition to a good lower unit, you would need the electric control with the VERY expensive shift switch. And unless you are into short trips only, you need a generator kit.

I can't make the judgement call on the powerhead removal, but they usually come off pretty well in my past experience. I've even had to use a 12MM socket to get the rusted-away 1/2" bolts out. Hopefully, the outside rust might be worse than the inside rust. The rest is fairly easy.

I have seen the shift shaft break, that is the aluminum cross-shaft that goes across under the powerhead, and I have seen the bellcrank lever that goes into the shift shaft break more often. Of course, I can't tell you what is wrong till you take a look-see. We can assume it's not the shifter handle frozen in the lower pan, right?

 

[jond8]

Re: 1964 40hp RDS26 Manual Shift, Clutch Dog / Shift Question

Thanks all for the thoughts guys...

It's official, I won't convert to E-shift....

As far as I can tell, something is stuck in the upper part of the motor/exhaust housing near the pivot. I can see no problems with the shift rod looking up from the bottom of the motor (keep in mind that the lower unit is off when I am doing this testing, so when I speak of the shift rod, it is the top one).

One interesting thing: When I reach my fingers thought the shift linkage access port I can grab a hold of the upper shift rod. When I check the amount of axial play it has with the external cable sift lever all the way forward there is around 1/8" of axial play (up and down). When I try to shift into neutral the external cable shift lever stops moving after about 1/2" of throw. When I bind it up like this, there is NO play whatsoever in the shift rod (again, in the axial direction). Does this indicate anything specific?

Also, there is a zirk above the bearing at the sift pivot shaft on the motor casing. Would it help to pump that guy full, or is it non-related?

Lastly, after replacing the clutch dog I replaced the gearbox fasteners with nice cap head SS machine screws and lock washers. Of course now I have oil leaking out from around them as a lock washer isn't going to seal well (oops, my bad). I am thinking about ordering some two piece sealing washers (stainless/rubber) from Mc Master Carr. Any other suggestions on how to fix this problem? Do people usually just use tons of sealant goop?

A switchover to electric shift is possible, but not too practical. In addition to a good lower unit, you would need the electric control with the VERY expensive shift switch. And unless you are into short trips only, you need a generator kit.

I can't make the judgement call on the powerhead removal, but they usually come off pretty well in my past experience. I've even had to use a 12MM socket to get the rusted-away 1/2" bolts out. Hopefully, the outside rust might be worse than the inside rust. The rest is fairly easy.

I have seen the shift shaft break, that is the aluminum cross-shaft that goes across under the powerhead, and I have seen the bellcrank lever that goes into the shift shaft break more often. Of course, I can't tell you what is wrong till you take a look-see. We can assume it's not the shifter handle frozen in the lower pan, right?