1960 40hp Evinrude Mystery

[ssdale]

I have restored1959 Starcraft tinner and found a prestine looking all original 1960 Lark II. The PO said he had it for 15 years and it was just serviced before he bought it. He never heard it run and had never even tried to start it. I took a chance and bought it because the look is perfect for the boat.

I am not a mechanic bought have good basic skills and have purchased and read Seloc manual for this engine and have read extensively on this forum on how to ressurect an old outboard.

Heres what I've done:
1.Changed impellor-although old one had never been run, still had installation grease just as po had said
2.compression test shows 125 on both cylinders after applying lubricant and turning by hand
3.replaced spark plugs and HAVE good .25 inch spark
4. cleaned the fuel bowl and reassembled
5.inspected the fuel pump and diaphram appears to be in perfect shape

The starter spins great but will not start! I am NOT 100 percent sure that the fuel is getting all the way to the carb so i have sprayed carb cleaner and even a little starting fluid into the carb and still nothing. From what I've read I will have to remove the starter and the water choke to get the carb off. I would just like to at least here her cough before I go through all that.

I know i will have to tear into the carb, but shouldn't it at least sputter with starter fluid? Why wont it at least hit using the fluid?
Needing encouragement,
Dale

 

[Crosbyman]

dont overdo the carb cleaner test as it will wash away oils coating the innards.
try a shot of fresh fuel in as spark plug hole to see if it sputters (reinstall the plug and fire it up




​

 

[F_R]

Before you pull that carburetor, check to see if it really needs it. Unscrew and completely remove the high speed needle. Does gas run out? Is it clean gas or glop? Even if it is glop, squeeze the primer bulb to flush some clean stuff through. Then reinstall the needle and see if it will start. Normal opening for the needle is about 5/8-3/4 turn open. The fuel passage through it is huge, very hard to completely obstruct. Of course there also is the possibility that no gas runs out. Then you would have to find out why not. Maybe a stuck float valve. If that is the case, you may have to pull the carburetor anyway.

Tell you what--even though it has spark, you should pull the flywheel and check the ignition. Cracked coils are the norm on a motor that old. And having the flywheel off makes it so much easier to get the carb off. I believe it is called killing two birds with one stone.

 

[geoffwga1]

Ok.Here's the deal.First things first compression you say is good.Next comes the spark.It needs to be able to jump an air gap of at least 7/16of an inch on an adjustable tester ( not a neon).To achieve this you will need to pull the flywheel and inspect the coils,if you find the slightest crack ditch them cos they ill be shot and unreliable.Remove clean and polish the points and adjust to 0 020 thou.After setting,run a card soaked in alcohol or similar through them to remove any race of grease Repjace flywheel and retorque to 105ftlb.
Next is the carburetor.You will need to remove the starter to do thi but it's not hard to do.Strip the carb and soak all the bits overnight in carb cleaner or Pine sol.Wash in warm soapy water and blow dry.Make sure all the little channels are clear and that the float sits at the proper angle.Invest in a carb kit ( available here at Iboats) and reasemble.
Finally,use the Seloc manual to prop up a table or something and get the factory service manual from outboard books .com..whenthat's all done come back if still no start and wwe.ll go through setting up the carband link and sync with you.I'm pretty sure the flywheel torque is 105 for that one but someone more knowledgeable than me will soon correct if that.s not the case.Fuel is 24.1.

 

[Crosbyman]

try this book for a lot of info on RD22 looks similar to a LARKII in the marinengine.com site

http://boatinfo.no/lib/johnson/manuals/1922-1964johnson.html#/0

 

[ssdale]

dont overdo the carb cleaner test as it will wash away oils coating the innards.
try a shot of fresh fuel in as spark plug hole to see if it sputters (reinstall the plug and fire it up




​

Forgot to put that on my list, but I did put fresh fuel in both cylinders and reinstalled plugs. Nothing.
Thanks for the advice about wiping her out with no lubrication
Dale

 

[Crosbyman]

are the plugs gapped properly ?? take your time and enjoy your hobby... you have all winter to do what geoffwga1 says

if not already replaced..... those coils are shot which would make your purchase a very nice find like my 1966 9.5hp paid $50.... with cracked coils

it now runs perfectly along side my 75ETEC.

 

[gm280]

The fact that you did spray "starter fluid" in the carb and nothing happened, points to the ignition side of the problem to me. And let me reiterate, never ever use starter fluid in any 2 cycle engine. There is ZERO oils or lubrication in starting fluid and therefore it washes all the oils off all the bearings, and every moving part. Not a good things when it does start up. Mix up a little gas/oil (50:1) mixture to the engines specification and use a little squirt bottle to spray into the carb openings next time.

I say remove the flywheel and verify the points and condenser and coils are indeed good. And buy a very cheap spark tester at most any auto parts store to test the spark jump. And if you can get a nice blue snapping spark to jump 7/16", then you're good to go.

Post your results back here, so we can offer other ideas and suggestions. :thumb:

 

[steelespike]

When you have the flywheel off note the condition of the flywheel key and keyway.

 

[ssdale]

When you have the flywheel off note the condition of the flywheel key and keyway.

Thanks everyone for your help. Especially the library link!

I will buy a tester that i can set for 7/16. was just eyeballing before but it looked so good that I wanted to believe. Mostly because the thought of pulling the flywheel etc... is more mechanicing than I have ever done. Every time I have seen an ametuer tear something apart, it has become scrap iron.

I will definitely try the easier suggestions here first and repost. This has been a project(the boat) that I have stuck with for many years, so I don't give up easily,but it takes me a long time, so bear with me.

Steelspike, whats your thought about the keyway??

 

[Crosbyman]

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/cheap-outboards-max-wawrzyniak/1112019165?ean=9781891369629

For certain do not give up on it

my first motor was a 10hp QD mdl mid 50s ...I knew nothing ... motor Wise but with the help of everyone here and the AOMCI site I got going

I now have a collection!

Small by all respects 2 x 3hp JWs, a 4hp, the 10HP QD a 15hp FD a 3.9 Merc, a 7.5hp Evinrude and a 5.5hp ...a 9.5hp from 1966 that looks out of the box !

you should buy the book on cheap outboards....it pretty well contains all you need to know. see link

I have never openned up a motor to get to pistons and innards just TLC, o?l and cheap parts got them all going

take your time ask questions and you will have yourself a trustworthy engine you can fix yourself !! no expensive eletronics

but do feed it XD100 o?l or AMSOIL synthetic biodegradable oils (no smoke and envirosafe oils)

 

[tomhath]

One simple check is whether the plug wires are swapped. Switch them and see if it fires.

 

[boobie]

Good idea to check the plug wires.for being crossed. Does it want to back fire when starting ?

 

[ssdale]

Well I have to eat my former statement about the .25 inch spark. When holding the plug against the body of the motor and seeing the plugs blue spark (and taking a few jolts myself) I wrongly concluded that it had a good strong spark.

After buying an adjustable tester today as you guys suggested, I found that both coils have enough to jump a normal plug gap, but will never jump an arch .25 inches, much less 7/16.
I still find it hard to believe that the spark, even weak, does not ignite,backfire cough, nothing. But I am wrong.

Just a mystery to us non mechanics.


I also followed your suggestions and made sure that gas is indeed reaching the carbuerator by backing out the high speed needle all the way and letting out the old gas. Some, not a lot, of clean new gas does come out now. But i guess the carb is moot until I tackle pulling the flywheel and replacing the coils. I am realy not sure that I am up to tearing into her that deep and I hate to screw up such a beautiful old motor-but i guess in its present state it is just an expensive anchor.

Having a big enough amount of time to really stick with it is my problem, and I get bogged down in the details, which is a good trait for boat restoration, but not so much for a mechanic. I will tackle it with you guys to help me. I would NEVER have attepted either of my restos without this forum.
My latest project in the resto forum is "1959 Starcraft-About to start Restoration" Not sure how to link it to this thread. Any help is always appreciated! Also post documented my Cherokee resto that i did before I joined. It is in the Cherokee section.

Wheres the best place to buy coils? and what else will I need?

Thanks,
Dale

 

[racerone]

Fact----Most newbies just do not know that it takes more voltage to jump a 0.030" gap on the plug in the cylinder.--Air that is compressed to say 100 psi just does not work / behave the same as air at 14.7 psi.---If spark will not jump a gap of 1/4 " you have a " no spark condition " in the cylinder.------And you are not the first to be confused / misled by spark on the plug.

 

[lindy46]

Flywheel should have an inspection port on top. Remove the cover and you can see the points and coils. Check to see if coils are cracked. You can adjust/clean the points through the opening. You may just have dirty points which you can clean with a strip of business card soaked in acetone. If you have a point file, you can polish them up if they are corroded. Or use some emery cloth to polish them.

 

[Steve A W]

SSDALE
Pulling the flywheel and doing the ignition work isn't that hard, even
for an amature. The biggest thing is get over the fear and do it.
Here's some links and video's to help.
This is an easy and cheap way to pull a flywheel;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWgE9XiIBnk

Here's the series of articles that Max W. based his book "Cheap Outboards" on;
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/columns/max/articles.htm

Here's where I get my coils from;
http://aomci.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4336&sid=5c18b1a7788c4047454a0410d93951bc

And here's a link to the Antique Outboard Motor Collectors club website;
http://aomci.org/

And You can find most anything on youtube.
Good Luck with Your motor.

Steve A W

 

[ssdale]

Flywheel should have an inspection port on top. Remove the cover and you can see the points and coils. Check to see if coils are cracked. You can adjust/clean the points through the opening. You may just have dirty points which you can clean with a strip of business card soaked in acetone. If you have a point file, you can polish them up if they are corroded. Or use some emery cloth to polish them.

Thanks Steve for the links. Max W. actually lives about an hour away from me in St.Louis, MO. The PO of this motor and he were/are friends and he gave me Max's home phone number ( my brush with greatness.!) although I have never used it.

This evening I had a few minutes so I followed Lindy's advice and removed the pull starter to see if it had the access hole and it does. I tried to take a pic but it might not show that both coils are cracked wide open. So much for the MYSTERY in the title of this post. So now I need to use an impact to loosen the flywheel nut and a puller to get the flywheel off. The drift key will force me to re-install with the proper timing, correct? Not trying to sound like more of an idiot, but do most everyone just spend the extra few bucks for new points and condensers also? Or are the new of such poor quality compared to the originals that you are just as well to stick with the old and clean things up? Same question for the gas lines? The old ones look super duty with emphasis on OLD but my experience with new products are that they are so inferior. Advice is appreciated.

Thanks again and I will press on.
Dale

 

[Willyclay]

Re your Q's, the timing is set by the crankshaft/flywheel key but point gap must be absolutely correct and F_R has a tool to make that happen. Most forum members replace all the ignition components under the flywheel after going to all the trouble to remove it. Fuel lines are a crap shoot in our current world of ethanol-enhanced gas. Best practice is to replace them all with ethanol resistant stuff BUT if you plan to use only ethanol-free gas AND this motor never had any of the "bad-stuff" run through it, then you might be okay. The OEM parts were really good back in those days and NOS is still available if you search around. DISCLAIMER: Note my signature statement. I am not a pro and some of the forum gurus have already posted in your thread. Please follow their advice for the best results. Good luck with that great old motor!

 

[oldboat1]

got good advice. I might be a little less rigorous on setting points. Be rigorous on cleaning, though (clean new points too -- acetone is good). Set with a spark gap tool (.020), and do that carefully. Should be able to just drag it through with a little resistance. I find that motor pretty forgiving (had '61, '62 and I think a '63). Torque is going to be important when you replace the flywheel, so do it by the book (which I would quote if I had a copy in front of me). If it's too light, you will shear a key -- and by the way, use an OEM key. Use a harmonic balancer puller to pop the flywheel. That pulley on the top is for the optional generator kit. At some future point you might stumble onto one somewhere, and fool around with it. (I wouldn't hold up restoration for one.)

Anyway, I'm one of the folks who likes to just replace everything, including plug wires -- same with fuel lines. Let's see, I think you have a hot water choke(?) and recall you need a working thermostat for proper operation of the system (which is really interesting to see). If the ignition, carb and t.stat are working right, along with the choke, you get a smooth start and warm up '60s style. Run it in the lake or a deep barrel for set up and testing. When it warms up, t.stat opens and water flow about doubles out of the port on the leg, it will get your driveway pretty wet (keep the hose running). Engine sound will suddenly drop to a low growl too, with a change in exhaust resonance.

If you are new to ignitions, do it part by part, half of the magneto at a time so you can compare assembly. Be careful removing the old coils, as there will probably be some small shards which are bad for you and the motor.

I'm a little uncertain about your compression test (turning the flywheel by hand?). Think I would try it with the starter (crank until the gauge stops rising -- screw in type gauge). Test with the lower unit in water. 125 is good. ( I just sold a couple of good running '57s with 125 and 130, cold.) Look for even between cylinders. Oh, and you might as well do a carb kit and cleaning while you have it all apart (take off the starter for access).