16FT Sailboat a work in progress

[Murray92589]

I'm going to start with a couple of pictures. I want to take this boat to the keys and use it in calm water at the end of March, do I need to paint it before then I use it? I'm on a tight budget, could I just sand the rough parts out and use some sort of filler on the big cracks, then use it for a week and paint it later? I'm also concerned about my mast, it has a splice in it (which is supposed to be there) but it seems to be bending a little at the joint, should I worry about that, or will it not hurt the mast?

I'd like for this boat to be in new condition eventually, I'll post new pics of my progress in this thread.

Other threads on this boat:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=2480386#post2480386
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=368034

More pics:
http://s646.photobucket.com/albums/uu183/Murray92589/boat/

heres the pictures..

 

[archbuilder]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

Hey Murray, nice looking boat. Let me qualify this by saying I'm a power boat guy, so I don't have any idea on your mast. The paint looks like it is done to me, I would sand all of it off...I think if you try to fill it, your new paint will come off when that stuff flakes off later. You could lightly sand it before your trip, but I bet you will find that it comes right off. Good luck with your project, nice to see a sail boat on here!

 

[jeffnick]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

I'd just clean it up for the Keys trip. And the mast doesn't look too bad to me.​

After you sail it, then you can decide how much work/money you want to put into it.​

It could have been painted to be a matching part of a fleet. If her bottom is 'alligatored' like the topsides, it'll slow her down a bit, but you will still enjoy sailing her. I used to have a 12 footer on a trailer which I sailed off both coasts and too many waters inbetween to count.​

 

[Murray92589]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

both post are good news for me so far, ive just discovered one other problem the base where the mast mounts is pretty loose i can lift it off the boat about 1/8 of an inch... it looks like someone has worked on that before, evidenced by the bad patch job you can see in some of the photos....

Also i've just cut the wood for my daggerboard, should i try to fiberglass it or is there a good marine wood sealant i can get?

 

[jeffnick]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

No reason to glass the daggerboard. Any good marine varnish will keep it in shape. I used to use Z-Spar Captains Varnish when I was a sailboater.
http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/9297-captains-varnish-quart-from-z-spar-coatings.html​

The 'mast step' needs to be firmly attached to a strong base. All the forces of the mast will be directly down so being able to lift the step up a little isn't all that bad, but the step definitely needs to be kept from sliding in any direction. If there's any weakness in the trunk where the step is located, a repair to strengthen it up is in order.​

I don't know where you plan to sail in the Keys, but I have a favorite ramp at Bahia Honda.
http://www.bahiahondapark.com/​

 

[saildan]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

1. do I need to paint it before then I use it? could I just sand the rough parts out and use some sort of filler on the big cracks,
2. I'm also concerned about my mast, it has a splice in it (which is supposed to be there) but it seems to be bending a little at the joint, should I worry about that, or will it not hurt the mast?
3. the base where the mast mounts is pretty loose i can lift it off the boat about 1/8 of an inch... it looks like someone has worked on that before, evidenced by the bad patch job you can see in some of the photos....
4. Also i've just cut the wood for my daggerboard, should i try to fiberglass it or is there a good marine wood sealant i can get?
5. I'd like for this boat to be in new condition eventually

( 1 ) I?m not sure I?d even sand. I might just knock off the loose stuff with something like a plastic pot scrubber (not scotch-brite ? that?s equivalent to steel wool). The logic being, not to sand back any gelcoat since that will be your foundation for a new paint job so long as it?s in tack. The paint is shot ? that?s all there is too it. When you are ready, remove it all at once and either restore the gelcoat or repaint. In the mean time, just get the flakes out of your way and live with the looks.

( 2 ) The slight mast jog doesn?t look bad. If the tube used internally as reinforcement is equivalent to the strength of the mast it should be good.

A concern is the joint in the sail?s luff track. Does this mis-match catch the luff rope and wear on the sail?

( 3 ) The mast tabernacle bracket needs to be solidly attached to the boat and the mast solidly pinned to the bracket. It?s there to prevent mast-foot kick-out. Looks like someone released the stays and let the mast fall, ripping out the original bracket. The bracket won?t hold the mast up by itself.

It?s very probable the tabernacle bracket is secured into a backing plate or wood block. (see sketch) All the fittings are backed somehow ? the hull on this size boat is too thin by itself. I might put a 5? deck plate in one side of the console and make sure everything inside is sound.


( 4 ) I?m with Jeffnick on this ? marine varnish.


( 5 ) Take your time and do your homework about materials and technique. I saw some good advice the other day. In a nutshell it reminded readers these forums are a supplement to, not a substitute for the more detailed information you find in books on fiberglass repair, fiberglass refinishing, and boat maintenance. Some library time or book store time is well worth the effort if you want to teach yourself to do a quality job on a budget.

You might start looking at other boats in this size and see how the boat is rigged and maintained. One similar boat is the Coronado 15 (C15), though the C15 is a full race boat and yours is more a leisure-sports boat (not as hard core) there are many similarities.

 

[Murray92589]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

I dont think the gap is tearing at the sail at all, but i do need to check on that.. ill put the mast up tomorrow and see if the base slides.

today I lightly sanded the rough spots and used some spray paint on the discolored areas. Ill post some pics in my update tomorrow. it looks better but still ugly, I'm pretty sure once I get the varnish it will be ready to sail.

jeffnick i ordered some of that varnish thanks for the help.

 

[Murray92589]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

With the mast set up the base will twist about a 1/4 inch. there are four screws holding the the base down the two towards the rear of the boat do no seem to be catching anything, the two to the front are secure. I suspect that the wood it is bolted into has rotted. when i push on the mast it does not seem to be flexing the hull of the boat at all, it will only move as far as the base slides. If i dont fix this will it hurt anything other the the base? heres some photos that show how far it is twisting.

and here are some pics of my cheap spray paint job (its temporary I promise)

 

[saildan]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

With the mast set up the base will twist about a 1/4 inch.

and here are some pics of my cheap spray paint job (its temporary I promise)

Sounds like whatever was used for the tabernacle bracket repair has come loose. Probably just a couple of nuts and (hopefully) washers holding it.

Who knows how long it will hang on - we can speculate ad nauseum or you can cut an insection hole and know for sure.

You defenitely don't want the mast base to kick out under sail. It can be damaging at least and injurious at worst.

The aluminum plate under the bracket is a nice touch. I'd guess that was part of the repair to give a solid base where the fiberglass console was damaged. Wouldn't hurt to keep it and just secure it properly when you get in there.

- the paint, I can understand your desire to have things look consistant from a distance. In my book it's a waste of time and money, but you're not the first person motivated by fashion over function.

 

[ghamby]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

Are those brass or bronze bolts in that picture of the mast step? If so, replace with stainless steel! GH

 

[Murray92589]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

yes those are bronze bolts, are they not strong enough? i can pick up some stainless steel tomorrow..

sounds like i need to do some cutting and see whats up with my tabernacle repair, I was hoping to avoid fiberglass repair for a little longer but its better safe than sorry. if its not raining again tomorrow ill try to cut it open.

also about the paint, its still ugly if you ask me, but its not giving me fiberglass splinters now. lol

 

[Murray92589]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

I think I've come up with a solution for my mast step. It turns out that those rusty screws were supposed to be screwed into a cross bar going through a center wooden beam. however the crossbar had rusted through leaving those bolts just hanging down inside the boat. its a good thing i opened it up because this would have broke as soon as i put the sails up. below is a picture of what i plan to do. I bought a strip of l shaped aluminum, which is shown red, and i am going to bolt my top plate to the new aluminum bracket. the center wooden beam is only about a 1/2 inch thick so im not going to try to bolt into that, also the remainder of the rusted out crossbar is preventing my aluminum bracket from sitting flush with the beam.

also is there any problem with the zinc coated bolts/hardware?

heres some pics of the side i have done, yes that wood is rotten, (the white isnt mold its fiberglass dust from cutting the hole) im going to have to take the whole boat apart when i paint. ugh.

 

[saildan]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

1. ... its a good thing i opened it up because this would have broke as soon as i put the sails up.
   
2. below is a picture of what i plan to do.
   
3. the remainder of the rusted out crossbar is preventing my aluminum bracket from sitting flush with the beam.
   
4. also is there any problem with the zinc coated bolts/hardware?
   
5. im going to have to take the whole boat apart when i paint.

1) I suspected as much

2) How about flipping the angle bar aluminum around and securing it to the wood support (see drawing)

Epoxy or fiberglass the base to the keelson too (green lines)

3) That must have been from the previous repair. No reputable boat builder would use anything other than rot resisting wood or stainless steel as a backup.

4) Yes, see above comment. You don't want to repeat this error.

5) Naw, but an air test will be in order to locate the little leaks that are allowing water into the cavity. That area should always be bone dry. A couple of screw in deck plates will help you dry things and keep them dry later. Don't even think about splitting the hull. If you do you'll probably trash the boat.

.

 

[Murray92589]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

I would turn the angle bar around if i could, that was my first thought too, this is a picture of how the old bracket is still in there.

it may be that after I tighten the angle bar down the way i previously showed that it will bend the old bracket and i'll be able to attach the new one to the wood. also that wood is only a 1/2 inch thick and I'm a little afraid of putting bolts through it. it seems to be attached to both the deck and the hull already so the fiberglass area where im attaching the base is already supported by the wood.

 

[saildan]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

Pointer - When you cut access holes, make them circular in 4", 5", 6", or 8" size. Then you can put in a deck plate to seal the hole if you don't want to fiberglass it back closed.

1. it may be that after I tighten the angle bar down the way i previously showed that it will bend the old bracket and i'll be able to attach the new one to the wood.
2. also that wood is only a 1/2 inch thick and I'm a little afraid of putting bolts through it. it seems to be attached to both the deck and the hull already so the fiberglass area where im attaching the base is already supported by the wood.

1) My thinking is that rusty bar is from the last repair. It wouldn't be uncommon for it to be cemented on so I'd just carefully pry it out. Or if that's not possible because of the board, go to the outside of it. If you trap it between your new bar and the top plate, eventually it will rust out and leave your sandwich loose. Better to just leave it out of the mix.

2) If you were to sandwich the board the way I was proposing it wouldn't matter how thick it is. Tieing things together is to make everything solid, but huge bolts are unnecessary, 1/4-20 would work fine. Even the current bolts for the top plate are way larger than what's needed. If you just caulked the plate down and only through-bolted the tabernacle bracket, again with 1/4-20 bolts, you'd have plenty of resistance to side slip of the assembly.

Right now you need things secure and reinforced against internal collapse. On most boats this size the tabernacle sits directly on the fiberglass of the console and is secured by wood screws through the fiberglass into a backer block or 1/4-20 bolts passing through the fiberglass and a backer plate, fastened with washers and Nylock nuts (all stainless) This is what I now recommend.

 

[Murray92589]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

Thanks for the tip on the Deck plates i'll look into that, I've already cut the holes rectangular but I could easily make them round.

I've put the brackets in and completed the tabernacle repair. I ended up going outside the old brackets like you suggested, so your diagram is what it looks like except i used the L shaped bracket on the inside. Heres a couple of pictures...
I put the tabernacle bracket up a little by using washers between it and the aluminum plate, this allows my wing nuts to spin freely. I also had to grind down the edges of the bolt heads on the tabernacle bracket to let my screws pass through horizontally.

it was cold outside...

Also here is a picture of the daggerboard, this is before I started to varnish it.

 

[saildan]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

• I've put the brackets in and completed the tabernacle repair. I ended up going outside the old brackets like you suggested, so your diagram is what it looks like except i used the L shaped bracket on the inside.
  
• I put the tabernacle bracket up a little by using washers between it and the aluminum plate, this allows my wing nuts to spin freely.
  
• I also had to grind down the edges of the bolt heads on the tabernacle bracket to let my screws pass through horizontally.
  
• Also here is a picture of the daggerboard, this is before I started to varnish it.

A) Glad that worked out

B) Shouldn't be a problem. Down the road you may want to swap out the washer stacks for a piece of aluminum or wood (4)

C) Holy Smokes those are big bolts for that job (1), never-the-less they'll get the job done. Lock washers or flat washers with Nylock nuts on the back side. All stainless steel - right?

D) You should probably switch those flathead screws (2) for round or panhead ones.

OR Panhead

​

That \/ taper is intended for a countersink and will distort the side ears if you tighten the wing nuts much

The wing nuts (3) are good, but in my experience they will vibrate loose unless you add lock washers or ever-so-slightly oval the nut with vicegrips set to a gap equal to the nut diameter + about 1/4 turn tighter. You know the distortion is right when the nut threads on ok, but feels a little tight to turn.

You'll never need to wrench the wingnuts tight, just finger firm/snug - like you'd tighten the cap on a pop bottle.

Again, both these screws are stainless steel too - right?

That air gap (5) isn't good. Either cut the plate shorter or file it to the console's contour so it sits perfectly flat.



.

 

[Murray92589]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

I'm thinking about just shooting some caulk in that air gap, I DO NOT want to have to put those nuts onto the end of the bolts again, I dropped about 5 of them down into the hull... I'm gonna loosen everything up and caulk it, then tighten it back up. Yes everything is stainless, once again, I DO NOT want to have to repeat this process so I made sure everything was right the first time. lol

nice catch on those screws I didn't think about that.. I'll look for some next time I go to Home Depot. I'm using wing nuts in a couple of other places to, I'll have to find some lock washers for them, I was worried about them coming loose, but I hadn't got that far yet. I ordered some fiberglass repair stuff which should be here next week sometime, so for now I'm just working on the varnish on my daggerboard.

 

[saildan]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

1. I'm thinking about just shooting some caulk in that air gap, I DO NOT want to have to put those nuts onto the end of the bolts again, I dropped about 5 of them down into the hull... I'm gonna loosen everything up and caulk it, then tighten it back up.
   
2. Yes everything is stainless, once again, I DO NOT want to have to repeat this process so I made sure everything was right the first time. lol
   
3. I ordered some fiberglass repair stuff which should be here next week sometime,
   
4. so for now I'm just working on the varnish on my daggerboard.

1) Two issues there. First, the leading edge of the plate will be cutting into the fiberglass. As it cuts down into the hull the plate will appear to become loose. Second, the slight tilt aft will translate into rearward mast rake.

Study up on these sailboat and sailing items:

• CE and CLR
• Mast Rake
• Weather Helm

2) I gather that's the two on the far side of that support board. I understand the difficulty - it's up to you.

If you are still going to use caulk, loosen the plate - squeeze in something good like a quality polyurethane caulk (not DOW5200 -that's also a glue) - press the plate down, but don't tighten the bolts until after the caulk hardens for a couple of days.

3) You don't have a local boat shop or fiberglass supplier - I don't mean Home Depot, I mean a shop who employs people with experience and knowledge about the materials who can give you guidance.

4) I mis-labeled this in the previous reply and forgot to mention it. Before you start varnishing -

How did you determine what size the daggerboard needed to be? Are you aware it's not just a go straight fin, it needs to have the right surface area to resist the sideways force of the wind on the sail.

Because of these factors, the size needs to be balanced with the hull length below the waterline and rudder blade surface area to complete the Lateral Resistance side of the equation to counteract the sail area above.

Too large - you just go slower, but too small and some of your forward motion is lost to going noticibly sideways. It's part of that CE/CLR thing I mentioned earlier.

I don't think you need to do some sort of complex marine engineering calculations, but you should find another boat of the same length and carrying the same sail area and use it's exposed daggerboard area as a model for the ballpark your baord's exposed area should be in.

.

 

[Murray92589]

Re: 16FT Sailboat a work in progress

Unfortunately the closes marine supply place is about an hour drive from here, so I've been ordering products through https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/ and westmarine.com Jamestown dist. has all the instructions, and information on there website, so I read all of that to make sure it is what i need before I order it.
Another thought about the mast rake issue: I could fill it with Fiberglass Since I'm going to be working there anyways, Can I loosen the plate up and fill the whole with shredded fiberglass material and resin? otherwise I'll probably just use caulk.
There were several websites and forum threads that I read before determining the size of my daggerboard. From what I understand the submerged area of the daggerboard should be roughly 4% of the sail area, I figured out the area for the board and then added an inch so if it seems a little long I can just lift it out of the water a little and move those 1x1's to make the adjustment.