1400 RPM loss from 13 to 15 pitch!!!

Miked3

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I hear you. Things like this annoy the life out me too. 10 years as a professional marine engineer at sea…16 years after as an engineer in renewables. Frustrating eh. Only reason to be mentioned the previous is that I’m not totally convinced that engine should see 6200 without a limiter before it. Just this afternoon l, tried my mercury outboard flat out there. It’s range is 5000-6000 rpm. She limited time and time again at 6120-6150 on smart craft and VesselView. Both of them couldn’t get to 6200. Mine is from 2016
It wasn't steady at 6200. It was 6150 flashing into 6200 now and again. So you are probably right that I was hitting the rev limiter. I don't know if my vessel view is any different from yours but just bought it new a couple months ago when I started testing as my analog gauge was off and my multimeter was not reading properly and jumping around a lot.
 

Miked3

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Then you certainly know that you're not going to figure out what is going on from a single data point. ;)

What does your data at 1000, 2000, 3000, 3500, 4000 and 4800 rpm look like?
How do those result overlay on your motors' power curve?

What you'll find is your out of Horsepower trying to swing the 15.....

As you can see below, the 15" prop consumed 35% more power while increasing speed just 13.3%.

Horsepower = Torque x rpm/5252
15" Prop
60 = T x 4,800/5252
T= 60 X 0.9139
T= 54.83

13" Prop
60 = T x 6,000/5252
T= 60 X 1.424
T= 85.4
A single data point would be literally a single data point. I made dozens of runs all with the same results.

This is a fishing boat and not a pleasure craft. Headway speed and WOT will be what I am running at literally all of the time. Max speed for long runs is what I am looking for. I am just looking to maximize the power to speed that this engine is capable of at a safe RPM. Its obvious that the 13 pitch prop is not utilizing the full capability of the motor and if the huge rpm swing down with just a two pitch change and a smaller diameter prop was normal than everyone would be seeing it yes? But they are not. And I have talked to others with my boat and motor on a Lund group where most are running 15" pitch props over 30mph.
The ideal prop runs your motor out of horsepower in the optimum high rpm range yes? So running out of HP is the goal right?
 

QBhoy

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It wasn't steady at 6200. It was 6150 flashing into 6200 now and again. So you are probably right that I was hitting the rev limiter. I don't know if my vessel view is any different from yours but just bought it new a couple months ago when I started testing as my analog gauge was off and my multimeter was not reading properly and jumping around a lot.
I found the same thing exactly. Only thing that might explain this…other than what has been said by everyone…might be if you have a prop exhaust bore plastic sleeve ring there. Behind the prop. White thing. There was a re call on some models with this. Mine included. Allows venting of the prop when it comes loose.
 

Miked3

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I have a thousand engineer jokes.

however all joking aside. writing a letter would just make you look like an idiot. you ran out of horsepower.
Cool.
TurningPoint recommended the 14x13 3 blade prop after hearing what my numbers were with the 13.8x13 4 blade. Then they also recommended the 13.75"x15 3 blade after my RPM's were too high with the 13 pitch. Why would I not report back to them? They don't have pitches in-between the 13 and 15...want to know why? Because this jump is not at all normal.
 

Miked3

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I found the same thing exactly. Only thing that might explain this…other than what has been said by everyone…might be if you have a prop exhaust bore plastic sleeve ring there. Behind the prop. White thing. There was a re call on some models with this. Mine included. Allows venting of the prop when it comes loose.
Nothing white there but these Hustler props have a black plastic ring that slips on to cover that gap, I assume thats what you are talking about? Both were new and seemed tight and fine...
 

QBhoy

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Nothing white there but these Hustler props have a black plastic ring that slips on to cover that gap, I assume thats what you are talking about? Both were new and seemed tight and fine...
Similar. But it’s actually in the exhaust cavity area. Called a bore sleeve or exhaust bore sleeve ring. Some mercs were re called and an improved ring was made. Unlikely the issue. But thought I’d mention. Usually larger gearcase. But your CT Bigfoot came to mind
 

Miked3

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Similar. But it’s actually in the exhaust cavity area. Called a bore sleeve or exhaust bore sleeve ring. Some mercs were re called and an improved ring was made. Unlikely the issue. But thought I’d mention. Usually larger gearcase. But your CT Bigfoot came to mind
Oh interesting I will have to look into that. The motor is a 2014. Any idea if that is in the effected range?
 

QBhoy

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Oh interesting I will have to look into that. The motor is a 2014. Any idea if that is in the effected range?
I’m honestly not sure if it affected your model or not. It may well have, being a larger gear case. It certainly affected my 2016 CT (what the Bigfoot is called these days). Looks like this and behind the prop in exhaust cavity. They are terrible for coming loose and allowing prop slip with exhaust venting through the blades. Have a look anyway. See below
 

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Miked3

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I’m honestly not sure if it affected your model or not. It may well have, being a larger gear case. It certainly affected my 2016 CT (what the Bigfoot is called these days). Looks like this and behind the prop in exhaust cavity. They are terrible for coming loose and allowing prop slip with exhaust venting through the blades. Have a look anyway. See below
I could not find any reference to that bore sleeve on any of the 40-60hp bigfoots. Here is a pic without the prop and one of the Hustler with the ring they put on the prop for that area. I have a 13.5"x 14" pitch Solas prop to try and it does not have that ring but the prop is tighter tolerance up there than the Hustler without the plastic ring but not as tight with the ring. I will take it for one more rip before committing to quit for the season. (Thats just grease in the first pic)

Turning point said they have seen that big of a swing in RPM before and its always been 70hp and under. Beyond that they didn't want too say much after their two recommendations didn't work and they have no other alternatives.
 

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Miked3

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Ok I am resurrecting this thread. I have done a lot more testing on this at normal full fishing weight capacity and two new Solas Amita 3 props. I also moved my engine up one hole and the anticav plate is just a touch above the bottom of the hull, like 1/16"-1/8".

13 pitch is 29.5mph @6150-6200rpm. Its obviously bouncing off rev limiter and is not recommended to be above 6000rpm

14 pitch is 30.5mph @5350rpm. Not quite in the wot safe band of 5500-6000rpm.

I think this 200rpm for every 1" pitch charge is 100% malarkey!

For those that haven't read the whole thread, the numbers are directly through vesselview.
 

jimmbo

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It is not Malarkey. Either something you did, or haven't told us about, has delivered the results.
It appears one Prop has serious Blowout
Do both props have the same Hub/Tube Diameter? Is any kind of Ring that closes a gap between the Case and the Prop required?
 

racerone

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Agreed----Been proven to me that the 200 RPM is what happens.-----There is something wrong here !!!
 

Miked3

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It is not Malarkey. Either something you did, or haven't told us about, has delivered the results.
It appears one Prop has serious Blowout
Do both props have the same Hub/Tube Diameter? Is any kind of Ring that closes a gap between the Case and the Prop required?
Both of the Solas are identical and no ring. They come with hub already in them. The turning point props had same hub and they did have a sealing ring. Turning point told me they have seen my results several times before. Look at the speed numbers. It's not blowing out lol.
 

Miked3

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Agreed----Been proven to me that the 200 RPM is what happens.-----There is something wrong here !!!
Very similar results with two different manufacturers props. Turning point was worse than Solas though.
 

jimmbo

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If you had gained 800-900 rpm, even with a 1" drop in Pitch, the boat would be going much faster than it did with the 14. The prop is blowing out, or your tach is having issues
 

Miked3

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If you had gained 800-900 rpm, even with a 1" drop in Pitch, the boat would be going much faster than it did with the 14. The prop is blowing out, or your tach is having issues
Nope, if you had read, the numbers came from the vesselview not a tach. Also the top speed I am getting is about all this boat does with a 60 bigfoot. Even matches up with all the prop calculators. The people with the same boat but the regular 60 instead of the Bigfoot get a few mph more but thats it. The slip calculators on pretty much all the props I have tried have shown them all very low slip.
 

jimmbo

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Vesselview? For a 800-900 rpm difference with a 1" change in Pitch, and only 1mph difference in speed, one prop is blowing out. I will suggest you get your engine Rpms from a Tachometer
 

Miked3

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Vesselview? For a 800-900 rpm difference with a 1" change in Pitch, and only 1mph difference in speed, one prop is blowing out. I will suggest you get your engine Rpms from a Tachometer
Lol no offense but if you don't know what vesselview is and your telling me to get my rom from a mechanical tach that is literally calibrated from vesselview I have a hard time taking advice from you. The 13 pitch prop is too little prop, its not blowing out, its hitting the rev limiter which is why it only flashes 6200rpm occasionally. Again look at any boat with my similar specs and they do not go faster then low 30's withni
 

Miked3

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Lol no offense but if you don't know what vesselview is and your telling me to get my rom from a mechanical tach that is literally calibrated from vesselview I have a hard time taking advice from you. The 13 pitch prop is too little prop, its not blowing out, its hitting the rev limiter which is why it only flashes 6200rpm occasionally. Again look at any boat with my similar specs and they do not go faster then low 30's withni
Dropped my phone mid sentence and it sent. You get the idea but look at the rpm difference from the 14 to 15 pitch... It's not 200 rpm.
 

jimmbo

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Lol no offense but if you don't know what vesselview is and your telling me to get my rom from a mechanical tach that is literally calibrated from vesselview I have a hard time taking advice from you. The 13 pitch prop is too little prop, its not blowing out, its hitting the rev limiter which is why it only flashes 6200rpm occasionally. Again look at any boat with my similar specs and they do not go faster then low 30's withni
Never heard of Vesselview before today. Think what you want, but a one inch pitch difference on pretty much any Outboard or I/O is going be a 200 rpm change. A 800 - 900 change is something else, Blow out from Exhaust, Ventilation from Surface Air, or severe Cavitation.
 
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