1400 RPM loss from 13 to 15 pitch!!!

QBhoy

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All size numbers were verified on the prop as that was my first thought too!

My original numbers with boat having no extra test weight with the 13 pitch 4 blade was 5700rpm @ 30mph. Slip came out to zero I believe. Once I added weight that it will normally operate with that prop delivered 5500rpm @25mph.

I no longer have the 3 blade hustler 13 prop. I did the trade they have to get the 15.

The 13 pitch was 14" diameter. The 15 pitch is 13.75" diameter.
So just had a wee play with your numbers suggested above, with the 30 mph…5700rpm. Came out at 22% slip for me…assuming it’s the 1.83 gear ratio and 13” prop. Defo worth another run out to double check the data.
 

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QBhoy

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Ok. So you definitely need to go out and have another run. Zero prop slip is an impossible result. Not having a go by any means. Just trying to help. But yeah, certainly need another few tests. It’s just not possible to get that slip figure.
Keen to help out if I can. Do you know what gear ratio you have on your engine ? Think the model changed around that year or just after perhaps. One was 2 to one or close and the other might have been 1.8 something to one maybe. There may have been a Bigfoot or CT model with a lower ratio again too.
Here is what I got for the 15”. This and the above at 20% ish slip…might even be the norm for a pontoon perhaps. Either way…there is definitely a fair bit of variation or uncertainty around the numbers perhaps.
 

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harringtondav

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The sage gray beards above have summed it up: You are too power limited to increase pitch from where you started. And lugging your motor will damage it. The rule of thumb holds true: +- an inch of prop pitch will change your WOT -+ 200 rpm......assuming you have adequate power.
This may not be what you want to hear, but facts are facts.
 

QBhoy

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The sage gray beards above have summed it up: You are too power limited to increase pitch from where you started. And lugging your motor will damage it. The rule of thumb holds true: +- an inch of prop pitch will change your WOT -+ 200 rpm......assuming you have adequate power.
This may not be what you want to hear, but facts are facts.
Likely correct…especially with the rpm range and peak power being as it is…but be great to get the details and numbers verified first off, I think. Huge gaps and discrepancies currently. The mention of 0% slip and 1% slip tells the story. Further confused me, after I ran the numbers, getting hugely different results. Defo needs to start again, to get any progress.
 

walleyehed

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running that close, if you just cupped your 13P, you would have dropped from 6200 to 5800

as bondo stated, you ran out of HP at a point much sooner than the 15p prop curve
You run out of torque... I'd say blade design is a bit different on the 13 as well. 200-250 is per inch but when at the top of the torque curve, it can dump rpm in a hurry.
 

Miked3

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Guys I have a big foot. 2.33 gear ratio. Thought I put that in original post but I guess not.

I am in NH and unfortunately I don't think I will be able to get back out until spring. If you all think my numbers are wrong then you are saying that vessel view is giving me bad data. I haven't looked yet but anyone know where to call to question that?
 

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Miked3

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Sorry the 14 slip got cut off. Here it is. Run all your numbers with the correct gear ratio please.
 

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Miked3

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You run out of torque... I'd say blade designs is a bit different on the 13 as well. 200-250 is per inch but when at the top of the torque curve, it can dump rpm in a hurry.
Blade design is exactly the same between the 13 and 15 pitch 3 blade Hustler props.
 

Miked3

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Likely correct…especially with the rpm range and peak power being as it is…but be great to get the details and numbers verified first off, I think. Huge gaps and discrepancies currently. The mention of 0% slip and 1% slip tells the story. Further confused me, after I ran the numbers, getting hugely different results. Defo needs to start again, to get any progress.
Run the numbers with the correct big foot gear ratio please.
 

jimmbo

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Blade design is exactly the same between the 13 and 15 pitch 3 blade Hustler props.
No it is not, unless one of them is incorrectly labeled.

Okay, you have the 2.33:1 gear case, which, I believe, takes larger Diameter Hub props than the Standard case. Check you props, do they all have the same Diameter Hubs?
 

QBhoy

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Run the numbers with the correct big foot gear ratio please.
Think you may have left that out ! Regardless. The slip of 1% is still not in the realms of reality. The vessel view won’t be wrong either. You also just wont get 6200 from that engine. Best of luck next year, when you get a chance to get some better data.
 

Miked3

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No it is not, unless one of them is incorrectly labeled.

Okay, you have the 2.33:1 gear case, which, I believe, takes larger Diameter Hub props than the Standard case. Check you props, do they all have the same Diameter Hubs?
The normal gear case hub will not fit the bigfoot. The spline count is different. I used the same hub (Turning Point 501) for both three blade props, literally removed it and installed from the 13 to the 15 before sending the 13 back on trade.
 

Miked3

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Think you may have left that out ! Regardless. The slip of 1% is still not in the realms of reality. The vessel view won’t be wrong either. You also just wont get 6200 from that engine. Best of luck next year, when you get a chance to get some better data.
Yes I apologize for that, I guess it was critical for double checking my numbers.

Ok so the vessel view won't be wrong but yet it showed me 6200rpm with that engine which you say is impossible....

Can you explain how I can get "better data" please? Vessel view reports the live data, the prop is what it is. I can run the boat with that prop 100 times...what exactly do you think is going to change?
 

QBhoy

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Yes I apologize for that, I guess it was critical for double checking my numbers.

Ok so the vessel view won't be wrong but yet it showed me 6200rpm with that engine which you say is impossible....

Can you explain how I can get "better data" please? Vessel view reports the live data, the prop is what it is. I can run the boat with that prop 100 times...what exactly do you think is going to change?
Just suggesting you try again. That’s all. It’s not me that has an issue with it. It’s the physics that does
 

Scott Danforth

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my guess is that you were ventilating with the 13P allowing the higher slip and may have moved the beer cooler aft as little as a foot with the 15P and are over-loaded.

the 13P is better matched to the motor/pontoon since the WOT RPM limit is 6000, the 6200 would be fine as once you load the 'toon, you would have dropped RPM

you crested the available torque with the 15P
 

Miked3

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my guess is that you were ventilating with the 13P allowing the higher slip and may have moved the beer cooler aft as little as a foot with the 15P and are over-loaded.

the 13P is better matched to the motor/pontoon since the WOT RPM limit is 6000, the 6200 would be fine as once you load the 'toon, you would have dropped RPM

you crested the available torque with the 15P
The weight is evenly distributed using 50lb bags of salt to mimick how it will be setup in the spring. All have been stationary in the same places for all testing.

I don't have a pontoon. I have a Lund 1625 Fury XL v-hull aluminum. I assume you saw that the original prop was a pontoon prop and got confused. The bigfoot motors often come with pontoon props from the factory and dealers just rig them how they come regardless of the boat.
 

Miked3

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Just suggesting you try again. That’s all. It’s not me that has an issue with it. It’s the physics that does
Trust me I am dumbfounded as well. I am a Validation Engineer by trade so this really pisses me off. I will be sending all data to Turningpoint this afternoon. I already confirmed vesselview can't really be wrong.
 

QBhoy

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Trust me I am dumbfounded as well. I am a Validation Engineer by trade so this really pisses me off. I will be sending all data to Turningpoint this afternoon. I already confirmed vesselview can't really be wrong.
I hear you. Things like this annoy the life out me too. 10 years as a professional marine engineer at sea…16 years after as an engineer in renewables. Frustrating eh. Only reason to be mentioned the previous is that I’m not totally convinced that engine should see 6200 without a limiter before it. Just this afternoon l, tried my mercury outboard flat out there. It’s range is 5000-6000 rpm. She limited time and time again at 6120-6150 on smart craft and VesselView. Both of them couldn’t get to 6200. Mine is from 2016
 

dingbat

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I am a Validation Engineer by trade so this really pisses me off.
Then you certainly know that you're not going to figure out what is going on from a single data point. ;)

What does your data at 1000, 2000, 3000, 3500, 4000 and 4800 rpm look like?
How do those result overlay on your motors' power curve?

What you'll find is your out of Horsepower trying to swing the 15.....

As you can see below, the 15" prop consumed 35% more power while increasing speed just 13.3%.

Horsepower = Torque x rpm/5252
15" Prop
60 = T x 4,800/5252
T= 60 X 0.9139
T= 54.83

13" Prop
60 = T x 6,000/5252
T= 60 X 1.424
T= 85.4
 
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