100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Ok accelerator pump I like it sounds like best option here. They are like $80 bucks. I once spayed carb cleaner in that hose and boat run good 1 time. So this pump/plunger opens on vacuum and could be sticking. Web page below part #35 correct..

http://www./parts/search/Merc2/Mari...e Check Valve Reference Number 24)/parts.html sorry web page not working think was to long.

I think you hit it CharlieB thanks lots I will have a rocking fishing boat this spring :)
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Ok got a compression gauge today from friend at work how many psi? Will take me a few days to check it do to snow.

When I ran the boat on the hose it was very hard to regulate over 2000 rpm maybe cuz that pump sticks

Cant what to fix the secondary fuel pump if that's the problem bet my boat breaks 45mph ....39-44 on gps before
 

CharlieB

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Factory service manual spells everything very well.

The accel pump feeds two 'injectors', each is a 'poppet' type valve requiring about 3 psi to pop open and spray. They can get dirty, stick open, leak, or clog up and not flow at all.

Disconnect the hoses from the accel pump, stroke the linkage, if the pump squirts fuel chances are it may be OK and the injectors need cleaning.

Accel pump adjustment is critical, there is a spec in the manual for the plunger distance to the cam.

If you do not have the manual drop me a PM with email addy.
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Well been cold and snowy getting done what I can when the weather is good. Ok rebuild kit both fuel pumps/ filters and I found them fuel injectors look like brass fittings with a flot pin inside ( looked clean but I think sticking a small pin in one of the holes may have opened it up 20% or so) accelerator pump really simple $80 rebuild kit wow. Lucky found it on eBay $36. I think ur right Charlie bet that small brass valve was sticking in accelerator pump. Soon as the ice is clear will post results.
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Fuel injectors cleaned out ( With .o23 pin)Fuel pumps/ fuel lines replaces/water pump/ fired it up on the hose ran very good, throttle response was best I have had yet. Before running on the hose was hard to regulate over 2500rpm. Next weekend I will take to the river if mother nature cooperates. And think I found the SN number was going to take photo with my phone but forgot get to that and do compression test before next weekend.
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Ok on 4/4/13 at 430pm air temp 53 water temp 37 boat runs at 1500 rpm while I get things ready park truck. *Boat stalls first 5 times in gear, so i throttle it up kinda slam it into gear get going forward 2200 *rpm at best feels like 2 cylinders are running. 10 min on the water it starts to go but not top speed feels like 3 cylinders are running 4600 rpm and 35 mph.

Sigh new fuel pump rebuilds/carbs/ waterpump/lower oil/all new hoses filters. Looking electrical now ?

Will check compression , results post on monday,*

*what I should be reading?

Going to feel like a fool if the numbers are bad, shoulda checked this 3 years ago
 

CharlieB

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Troubleshooting a problem in a logical sequence will help you determine which way to proceed to zero in on the problem.

The compression test will tell you if you have a mechanically sound cyl/piston. The actual # can vary quite a bit with the quality of the gauge used, the important thing is that all cyl's read within a very tight range, within 10% or less of each other. A cheap tool may only read 85 or 90 PSI, as long as all cyls read near that, fine, a quality tool may read 110 to 120, again, as long as they are near the same.

Next is a spark test using a 7/16 inch air gap to see a nice fat blue arc capable of arcing under compression. This only tests the ignition system at cranking speed, the stator actually has two sets of generating coils, a low speed series used at cranking and running below 2500 RPM where the high speed coils begin to take over voltage generation for high speed running. Here is where a DVA Meter or any volt/Ohm meter and a DVA Adaptor can be used to test the high speed coils while cranking, if they cannot generate within the acceptable range at cranking speed then the high speed coils cannot generate well enough for high speed running.

There is always the possibility of broken trigger wires abutting and working, then failing as the throttle is moved and the wires are flexed. During the spark test it may be a good test to disconnect the throttle cable and while cranking and watching the spark, move the throttle lever at the motor all the way from idle to WOT and back. If spark fails at any point during throttle movement then the trigger wiring is suspect. It is also a good idea to remove the spark plugs to relieve load on the starter and battery during spark testing, and grounding the other three plug wires to prevent any errant sparks from either biting the #### out of you or igniting and gasoline fumes that are blown out of the cyl's.

CDI Electronics has what may be THE best Ignition Troubleshooting Guide ever written, available for free download, find your particular ignitions section, study it, as it details very clearly which wires to test and how to test them.

CDI Electronics Practical Outboard Ignition Troubleshooting

So after confirming compression and spark, the only thing left is fuel and adjustments. Be sure to double check fuel delivery to the carbs, air sucking into the system from old cracking hoses or a leaking fitting will not allow the fuel pump to fully fill the upper carbs, the motor will not perform. Two good tests, disconnect the fuel hose between the fuel pump and carbs, point it into a suitable container and crank the motor, you should see a strong pulsed fuel stream the diameter of the fuel hose and spurting out with good force, any less and suspect the fuel supply hose and fittings. The second test it to temporarily replace that section of fuel hose with a clear hose, hook up the ear-muffs and water hose, start and run the motor watching to see if any air bubbles keep passing thru indicating air sucking in anywhere before the fuel pump. O-rings in quick disconnect fuel fitting die, sealing fine when pumping the bulb but failing when the fuel pump sucks on it.

Time spent on these details will soon detect the problem, just remember to remove that clear hose once finished with testing and repair, clear hose is NOT RATED and is NOT APPROVED for fuel use, only as a temporary tool to check for a problem.

Check each of these and repost what you find.
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

PSI test done

1 = 117psi
2 = 115psi
3 = 121psi
4 = 114psi
is that bad am I wasting my time on this old motor.
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Ok sorry PC not refreshed did not set ur post I am within 10% so PSI is ok.

Like I said seemed like I was running on 3 cylinders, Then I was finally got it to go 4600rpm, when doing the PSI test #3 cylinder plug was wet gas oily, all other cylinders were dry from firing.

I will do a spark test again. I used a device from Harbor Freight before lights up with every firing is that adequate?
 

CharlieB

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

It must be an OPEN GAP tester, those flashy neon tubes are about worthless, they look nice, but only and open air gap places enough load on the ignition to force the voltage rise which is what you are actually testing. If the ignition can't generate enough voltage to arc across an open air gap of at least 7/16 inch with a hot blue arc, then it is too weak to reliably arc across a spark plug while under compression.

When the piston comes up it is compressing more air into the gap of the plug, effectively opening the gap, creating more resistance that the ignition has to overcome to arc, requiring more voltage for that arc to occur.

Those compression #'s are fine, as the motor warms they will actually rise, the motor is mechanically sound.

Finish testing the ignition, remember to 'wiggle' the trigger wires, or disconnect the throttle cable and move it while testing to ensure no spark failure due to a broken trigger wire.

You posted that you did get the motor up to 4600, was this IN the water and IN gear? If so, then you also proved that the high speed windings in the stator are good.

So you have already reduced the possible problems to a trigger, switchbox, coil, or carbs and adjustments.
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

4600 rpm in the water but took sometime to get it to kick in.

Ok spark test
#4 bottom nice clean arc
#3 nothing try diff wire and plug nothing
#2 nothing
#1 nothing

Ok I was like this is wrong, had wife to help turn the boat over for me I must be missing something. Still nothing on 1, 2 and 3..Got my cheap harbor freight tester same only # 4 with spark.

I had tested it last year did have spark on the harbor freight tester.

So I was thinking I should play musical coil ?? switch coil #1 and #4 see ware the spark goes?
 

Laddies

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Back in January I tried to tell you it was spark, just in case you want to check your system now here's the test from CDI

scan0003.jpg
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

I will bring out my voltmeter and post what I find but I am still in shock that there is no spark. Spark was check last year and the year before I had spark maybe dual problems ( and i mean no spark dont even no how its starts ?)

I have hit 44mph on best running days last week was only 35mph. really think I can hit 47 or 48 when it’s running right.
 

CharlieB

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Does your meter have a DVA scale? If not then you need a DVA Adaptor to get a reliable reading.

You can build one cheap and easy, here is a link to that thread

Simple, easy to make DVA adapter for standard Multimeter*/ 374544

A slow cranking speed can cause problems, make sure all cable connections are clean and tight, including the cable to the starter.
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Ok not that I am not listening but um chit getting deep. So I switched coils 3 and 4 the spark did not follow. So coils are must likely good. It sparks on #4 only

Do switch boxes go bad? Mine has a chunk taken out of the top like it got backed into something, like dime size top left looking at box(damaged say 10years ago you can tell its old)

DVA thing is getting deep, I need to read more, makes me feel like changing all the electrical parts grrrrr
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Ok I have a picture of my switchbox and the damage top left corner.

So no spark on #3 spark on #4
What I did today is just switched the 2 bottom trigger wires (labeled white in pic) still only spark on #4 = that makes me think it?s the switchbox I found one person had same problems as me and was his switchbox he did all fuel options like me then changed the switchbox and said thing ran like new

After I switched bottom 2 green wires that go to coil and (#3 had spark) #4 did not. So coils good spark is lost at switchbox or not getting to switchbox

So switch box looks easy to replace found new for $110 and that?s its on order..
If problem still persist (Trigger $95 stator $212) if I gotta take off the flywheel they are both getting changed and I will be asking for tips to remove that damn flywheel/ hate taper locks work to good. Hope I am never asking about flywheels ..:eek:IMAG0493.jpg
 

CharlieB

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Switch the trigger wires and retest for spark as you did with the coil wires.

This should show you if the problem is the trigger or the switchbox.

That little bit ground off the corner should not effect anything other than appearance.

The stator low speed windings are generating as proven that you are getting spark. Not positive about the high speed windings yet. They don't begin generating significant voltage until 2500 and under load. A motor can rev freely in Neutral so that still only proves the low speed windings good.

Trigger wires do have a habit of insulation getting old and flaking, allowing moisture to get in and rot the wires causing them to fail.

Swap the trigger wires, retest for spark then repost.

If you have a one piece flywheel you need the Merc puller that screws into the flywheel and the pusher bolt that screws down inside onto the crank.
You are almost done.
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

monday Ok new switchbox is on running good right from the start (on hose and water) but I have had it do this before run good 1 out of every 20 times out, then same crap next time out. It does feel diff but only hit 5000rpm and 40mph (very high winds very choppy lake)but it did run pretty good.

But still I feel like I am running on 3 cylinders (maybe I need carb adjustments)

Old switch box does test bad on volt meter =cylinder 2 and 3

Tuesday Now lets take about me I mean metarded me I cleaned the coils out, about 2 years ago green brass corrosion built up on spark plug terminals and inside coils. Cleaned to a nice brass polish. Somehow I was told I need dielectric grease to help spark well I filled the coil with grease (JakAzz me) I was under the impression that is helped the spark boy was I wrong when I read what it does. Maybe the grease helped kill the switchbox.

Any how coils cleaned out again all coils test good, new plug wires and spark plugs on order. Will run again on water soon and post results.
 

Richard45

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Ok fixed I would say seems the switchbox was 75% rest was accelerator pump and my dielectric grease problem. New plugs and wires hit 5200+ rpm 43mph.

Quick video of this weekends performance

VIDEO0006 - YouTube


Thanks to everyone for helping TY---TY ---TY your all awesome.
 

Bosunsmate

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Re: 100 hp mariner late 80's early 90's 4cylinder 2 not running

Good work, nice flat water too and looks non salty
 
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