2008 338 Four Winns

[redneck joe]

. . . As a seller, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. .

100%

 

[Lou C]

Thank you Lou. The boat purchase did not work out. Your advice is excellent. An aside, I remember a LouC from the old IFourwinns board, always good advice. Was that you?

Yes that’s me!

 

[Boaterdan278michigan]

Yes that’s me!

What boat do you have now? I have my 278 vista which was perfect up until the last couple years. Mechanically and aesthetically my 278 vista is sound, better condition than any of the mid 2000 boats we've looked at

 

[tpenfield]

Yes, it seems like more and more the boats for sale are not taken care of . . . thus the reason for selling. I've seen boats that were supposedly maintained "with an open checkbook" that were in visibly rough shape . . .

Must not have been much of a checkbook

Years ago I went to see a boat that was described as "mint" . . , it might have been before the bomb when off

 

[flashback]

I have a searay I'll give you if you come get it. Needs lots of love.

 

[Lou C]

What boat do you have now? I have my 278 vista which was perfect up until the last couple years. Mechanically and aesthetically my 278 vista is sound, better condition than any of the mid 2000 boats we've looked at

I still have the same boat all this time! Recent repairs that I had to do in the last 5 seasons:
Replaced a leaky steering actuator (tough job because of limited access), original lasted 23 years.
Rebuilt both trim rams, not hard as long as you can get the cap nut off the end of the trim cylinder. $100 for a pair of OEM rebuild kits, originals went 26 years!
Replaced water pump shaft seal on the Cobra outdrive, this was last done in 2005, I started seeing a bit of water in the gear oil
Cleaned & rebuilt the 4 bbl Quadrajet carb, this seems needed about every 6 seasons but it’s just the cost of a good rebuild kit & a couple hrs of my time….
The structural repairs (2006-7) and outside paint job (2012) are holding up well.
I also did a top end overhaul in 2017 with reman cylinder heads, replaced the exhaust at the same time.
And did a major upgrade to the single axle trailer in 2021 (6,000 lb custom galvanized axle, 12” surge brakes, load range E tires). Lowered the boat on the trailer to make launching easier.
A bit of work not that much money though compared to a newer boat!

 

[tpenfield]

The problem is, and will be, that boats 15-20 years old will need a lot of work. The owner/seller may not be aware of all the things that could use attention. A surveyor will certainly point all sorts of things out . . . that is their job. So the amount of work needed could be a shock to both buyer and seller.

As a buyer, you have to figure out how to make things work . . . else you will become a perpetual buyer and not an owner. I got to believe that a deal on the Four Winns could be had.

I reached an impasse with the seller when I was buying my Formula 330. The survey showed a few things that needed to be fixed as safety issues, and a few other things that would be needed fairly soon. In presenting the issues to the seller, he took a hard stand . . . 'take it or leave it', the boat is being sold 'as is'. My response was that I understood and was willing to meet him half way. . . . with a little back & forth, we had a deal.

 

[Boaterdan278michigan]

The problem is, and will be, that boats 15-20 years old will need a lot of work. The owner/seller may not be aware of all the things that could use attention. A surveyor will certainly point all sorts of things out . . . that is their job. So the amount of work needed could be a shock to both buyer and seller.

As a buyer, you have to figure out how to make things work . . . else you will become a perpetual buyer and not an owner. I got to believe that a deal on the Four Winns could be had.

I reached an impasse with the seller when I was buying my Formula 330. The survey showed a few things that needed to be fixed as safety issues, and a few other things that would be needed fairly soon. In presenting the issues to the seller, he took a hard stand . . . 'take it or leave it', the boat is being sold 'as is'. My response was that I understood and was willing to meet him half way. . . . with a little back & forth, we had a deal.

Compromise is part of the deal, I get that. I had accepted several scratches and nasty spider cracks. I obligated myself to repair several thousand dollars of items. I wrote a purchase agreement obligating the seller to repair everything related to mechanical and safety. They signed the agreement and took my down payment money. If they hadn't signed the agreement, it would have ended there. But they signed a legal agreement and I ordered surveys. This boat was selling for the above average price, according to JD Powers and BUC. Had I accepted the financial burden of all necessary repairs, I would have been 17 to 20 percent over for a boat in average condition. It was a slow speed train wreck which played out on a public forum.

 

[tpenfield]

Yes, I was thinking. . the price was a bit high . . . I've seen same boats in the $70K range . Were the mechanical and safety issues and $ cost known at the time they were signing?

 

[Boaterdan278michigan]

Yes, I was thinking. . the price was a bit high . . . I've seen same boats in the $70K range . Were the mechanical and safety issues and $ cost known at the time they were signing?

No, they were discovered during mechanical and structural surveys.

 

[Boaterdan278michigan]

Got it . . .

It looks like the boat was/is listed at $89,900 . . not sure what you were in for as an accepted offer. But, if it was reducing the selling price by $6K to essentially take it 'as is' . . . As a seller, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. .

What I would not want to have to do is get all that stuff fixed in order to make the sale. There must have been some emotion about the deal on the part of the sellers. There was a broker (32 Marine) involved as well (right?)

Here is what I sent.
"I've sent the survey findings and oil sample results in the email. Several issues were discovered during the survey which need repair. Further, oil samples indicate potential outdrive wear issues which need professional analysis. Hopefully you have read through the findings. Since you do not have access to a marine mechanic, I am willing to make these repairs however, the associated cost need to be credited off our purchase price.

The bottom line is this;

1. Outdrives need to be removed, then pressure and vacuum tested. Potentially output shaft seals replaced. $2,500.00
2. The power steering actuator needs to be removed and resealed. $1,000.00
3. The power trim tilt system on the port drive needs to be analyzed, either leaking pump motor, hoses or cylinders. $650.00
4. All four propellers need to be removed and repaired. All have serious dents or bends which makes them out of balance. $900.00
5. The raw water pump on the port engine wiggles while engine is running, indicating internal wear. Replacement, $650.00
6. The onboard fire suppression system needs recertification. $500.00.
7. The onboard shore power plug needs replacement. $40.00

Total cost $6,240.00. I have not included the cost of my labor. There are several issues which I will need to repair that we haven't asked a price deduction for.

1. Gelcoat repair. $2,000.00
2. Trailer tire replacement $1,500.00
3. Waste take level indicator. $750.00
4. Fresh water system leak
5. Windshield wiper repair. $250.00
6. Reconnect the couch to the track so that it goes back-and-forth like it's supposed to.
7. Various lights and indicators. $250.00"

 

[tpenfield]

Probably a learning experience . . . for both parties.

I've always spared the seller of the details, unless they ask for such, and just focused on what I want them to fix. TMI, can/does muddy the waters.

 

[Lou C]

People that aren’t mechanical or fussy get used to things that kinda work but aren’t really right and so things don’t get fixed for years. Another thing to add to that list is checking the propshaft Run out if the props (stainless?) are damaged suggesting grounding etc.
Personally I would not want a twin sterndrive boat to me it’s a maintenance headache even in freshwater! One sterndrive is quite enough, here they used to call those boats double trouble!
Get the biggest boat that can be powered by a single outboard (300 HP), that’s a 24-25’ big enough, Much less maintenance and what needs doing you can get at easier etc. No one is buying stern drives here anymore. Outboards are very expensive yes but in terms of safety, performance and less maintenance IMHO it’s worth it.