1965 26' Owens Flagship restoration underway.

[mickyryan]

How about old magazine pics or brochure?

 

[Sea18Horse]

Thanks Micky. I haven't found anything definitive. I've seen pictures and videos showing all sorts of colors. I found a March 1965 Popular Science with a test of an Owens Flagship but it's 24' with a 150 horse Mercruiser I/O so of course it's black. And I have a digital copy of a Brunswick era Owners manual and engine manual but it's a poor scan of a ratty copy that was originally in black and white any way. In that it looks like the engines could have been white. Not my first choice! I have seen pictures of older ones from like the fifties that were painted either white or gold. I found a you tube video of one very much like mine where the engine was painted what looked like Chrysler or Crusader blue. So I really have no idea.

Cheers...............................Todd

 

[mickyryan]

My uncles cris craft had 2 283 small blocks with velvet drive chevy red, dads first cabin cruiser broadwater made in mayo md had a gm 350 with velvet drive again gm red, it was red not orange , was there very young for arguments over paint color between dad and his friends lol no the reds on both of those boats were not orange red they were almost like a fire engine red

 

[Sea18Horse]

Cool! It's nice to hear it's not totally unheard of. Sounds like it would be in good company. Yeah I wound up using Duplicolor DE1653 red engine paint. It seems to be a perfect match for the existing red. And yeah it's definitely a fire engine red.

Cheers............................Todd

 

[Sea18Horse]

We got the bottom end all assembled yesterday. Camshaft in, pistons in, oil pump on and oil pan on. I got all the gaskets for the drive housing made up.

Main housing gasket, Trans mounting gasket and the water pump gasket. I'd forgotten my allen head sockets so we couldn't torque the camshaft sprocket and water pump drive gear on. we're really nervous about that step. If that nylon water pump drive gear splits it's game over. I'd really like to take it and the driven gear to the big machine shop in town to see if they could reproduce them either in iron, brass or maybe even nylon again.

Cheers..........................Todd

 

[mickyryan]

Was looking at a facebook page old wooden boats today and engine was fire engine red chevy

 

[emoney]

Great thread so far, keep up the good work!

 

[Sea18Horse]

Thanks emoney!
Well I got the sprocket and drive gear on. Not jazzed about how it's looking though. I was shooting for 180 inch/lbs torque or 15Ft/lbs. But I was only able to get to 150 inch/lbs. Specs according to the Flagship manual says 15-20 Ft/lbs. The allen bolts just kept sinking into the gear. It just didn't feel right. I have no idea what kind of bolts it had originally. This is what it had when I took it apart. Now its looking kind of funky from the side.
That dark line is actually a split in the nylon. It was there before I put the gear on but it definitely looks bigger now.
I found a drive gear online but they want 150 bucks for it before shipping.
Looking at this it looks like it may have metal sleeves or bushings in the bolt holes. I could be wrong about that but it definitely looks like it probably at least had washers under the bolt heads that mine didn't have. The center button looks like it has a lot less wear on it too. I hate it but I may have to pull the trigger on this.

Cheers.........................Todd

 

[briangcc]

On your caulk issue - have you checked with any resto houses in your neck of the woods? If not, and there's nothing around you, might I suggest giving the Antique Boat Museum in Clayton NY a call? Besides housing a number of wooden boats in their collection, they also do restoration work for customers. They may be able to point you in the right direction.

Or hit up Ned here if he's still floating around...

 

[Bayou Dave]

I agree. Ned L should be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[Scott Danforth]

regarding the cam driven water pump coupling gear, i would probably try to find new vs old nylon

or switch over to a newer style cam driven water pump.

https://www.cpperformance.com/c-129-cam-driven-water-pumps.aspx

 

[archbuilder]

Cool project, I will have to tag along if you still have room lol!

 

[Sea18Horse]

Thanks Brian and Dave! Good suggestion on the antique boat museum. I'm also hoping to get up to Port Townsend again in the near future and I may be able to hit up a few folks up there too. Yeah I was hoping Ned might stop in at some point. I'm a ways away from tackling that particular project anyway so not in a rush. I'm trying to concentrate on getting the engine back in and running. I don't want to get too much stuff tore up at once. I feel like that's how projects like this get mired in quicksand.

Thanks for the link Scott. Some cool stuff there. It would be awesome if something like that would work. But if you look at post 107, in the second picture you can see the drive gear peeking out from the water pump mounting hole. So you can see how this won't work. The trans will be in the way. I may well wind up having to find a way to mount a belt driven pump on the other end of the engine. Kind of like Ned did on his. But in this case it will wind up 5' or more away from the through-hull. Not ideal I don't think. Plus it's really tight up against the bulk head and the batteries. Oy! On an interesting side note. There is an outfit who claims to have a brand new Jabsco 14210-0001 water pump in stock for a mere $1524 and change ! Man if I could get this drive gear situation under control and was made of money I'd jump on this in a heartbeat! The outfit who has the drive gear also has a disgusting looking old used one for $425.

Arch, Absolutely! Welcome aboard!

Cheers................................Todd

 

[Birdman48]

I have a disassembled 1959 Flagship 283 (1959 Owens 2500 Express Cruiser) . My pump drive gear does not have sleeves or washers. The allen bolts tighten against the nylon gear. What looks like a sleeve in your picture is a slight recess for the head of the bolt. My gear looks like it was manufactured with the recess. The bolts should not sink into the gear.

 

[Sea18Horse]

Thanks Birdman! I really appreciate you popping in and sharing your insight! Ok so no sleeves inside the bolt holes. And no washers on the bolt heads. Ok, good to know about the recess. I'd wondered if it was originally totally flat and the recess just happened over time or if it was designed that way. Man! It's just baffling! It seems that they just trusted the nylon or Delrin or whatever material it's made from to hold up over time on it's own.

So is your gear the same dark amber color as mine? I'm just very gun-shy by now. (Paralysis by analysis) If I buy that one gear will it just do the same thing? My thought was to find a large fender washer that just fits inside the gear and over the center post and drill three bolt holes in it so as to spread the load. We can't see how that would cause a problem and we'd never have to worry about this problem again.

BTW, are you restoring the 59 Owens?

Cheers...........................Todd

 

[Scott Danforth]

Thanks for the link Scott. Some cool stuff there. It would be awesome if something like that would work. But if you look at post 107, in the second picture you can see the drive gear peeking out from the water pump mounting hole. So you can see how this won't work. The trans will be in the way. I may well wind up having to find a way to mount a belt driven pump on the other end of the engine. Kind of like Ned did on his. But in this case it will wind up 5' or more away from the through-hull. Not ideal I don't think. Plus it's really tight up against the bulk head and the batteries. Oy! On an interesting side note. There is an outfit who claims to have a brand new Jabsco 14210-0001 water pump in stock for a mere $1524 and change ! Man if I could get this drive gear situation under control and was made of money I'd jump on this in a heartbeat! The outfit who has the drive gear also has a disgusting looking old used one for $425.

Arch, Absolutely! Welcome aboard!

Cheers................................Todd

I would then have one machined out of bronze or aluminum. it would be about $150 from many of the on-line custom small gear companies.

no way I would pay $425 for $2 worth of nylon gear

 

[Scott Danforth]

this is the company we use at work for custom worm gears and custom spur gears

https://www.rushgears.com/gear-types/spur

 

[emoney]

Funny as I was reading the OP's dilemma on page 9 I thought, "Why not have one machined out of aluminum" and then Scott came along and share a link. With the price of CnC Machinery coming down into reality, I'd imagine you could find a lot of folks willing to take on that job.

 

[Scott Danforth]

you can also have is scanned and 3D printed (lasered sintered metal)

 

[mickyryan]

i was thinking 3d printed as well , or machined , plastic was used to keep noise down, doubt that little whine will bother you over the open exhaust