Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

74SkeeterHawk

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Oct 11, 2008
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

That clip has quite a bit of useful info in it. I ran across it when searching youtube for any unread info i didn't get in here.....no much of that at all.

Is it safe to assume that any point where wood come in contact with the rest of the boat..i.e. stringers to transom and so forth..... it will be beded in peanut butter? i know enought to avoid har spots but i dont know were that rull aplies. to everything?

I think thats what I am getting from everyone but I want to make sure. Im a very precise, technical person and hate to assume anything. I realy should have been an engineer of sorts rather than a maintainer. :D
 

maxum247

Lieutenant
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Try and eliminate hardspots anywhere you can along the hull useing peanut butter! And then follow up by fiberglassing in these area's accordingly. max! :)
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Is it safe to assume that any point where wood come in contact with the rest of the boat..i.e. stringers to transom and so forth..... it will be beded in peanut butter? i know enought to avoid har spots but i dont know were that rull aplies. to everything?

Try and eliminate hardspots anywhere you can along the hull useing peanut butter! And then follow up by fiberglassing in these area's accordingly. max! :)

yup....you dont want a void between anything....and you dont want a hard joint either.....so peanut butter is the perfect solution....if you mix csm fibers with it....it also becomes structural....


and btw jay.....i have heade of guys using penski board for the decks......you still encapsulate it with glass......it will never rot....and still really strong.....now if the price would just come down !
 

74SkeeterHawk

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Oct 11, 2008
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Thanks guys....Ive got this picture of how my rebuild will go when I start construction.....you know create a mental chain of events. Im trying to get answered any questions I come up with before I start, run into a problem then have to research the problem and start all over again.

On that note I wanted to know how you seal ports in the transom...specificlly the live well and bilge ports....allowing water to flow through the transom but not seep wick or leak into the transom and cause rot. I was not able to salvage the metal ports that were origanlly installed there. Thanks:)
 

Nova II 260

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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Make thru wall ports out of PVC coat the bare wood and epoxy them in.
 

jay_merrill

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Dec 5, 2007
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

I hear you on price. I would really love to redo everything on my T-Bird with stuff like Penske board, but budget is definately an issue. I may run some numbers on doing the transom with it though - it just seems to me like it would be a wise choice because the transom has holes (water intrusion points) in it. I know that the sealants for engine bolts are really good these days, but even so ....
 

74SkeeterHawk

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Oct 11, 2008
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Well guys no work being done for at least three more weeks. I was sick as a dog all last week and this week ...well feeling better and heading to the Cayman Islands for 8 days.....poor me :D. After that its the holidays so putting the project aside for a little while. Anyway the temps are not going to be very warm to do anything constructive I do not have a garage just a car port so I'm at the mercy of the weather. Anyway guys Ill be sure to post soon and ill bring pics of 7 mile beech. Talk to y'all later and happy holi.......oh what the hell screw the PC crap, Merry Christmas all!!!
 

jonesg

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Feb 22, 2008
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7,198
Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

If my transom had looked like that, I would have left it alone.
Or flood with acetone to displace the water,
dry it out then applied Git-Rot.
But you're in for a penny now.

When I cut the top of my transom open the wood was black pulp that came out with a teaspoon, it was like soil.

At this point I would go with a composite transom instead of plywood..
 

Nova II 260

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Rob, If you take me with you to the Caymans, I show you where the secret hidden nude beach is ...
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74SkeeterHawk

Seaman
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Oh man you'd probably would melt all that snow and ice up there with the hot skin I've been seenin down here..... no one tell my wife. :D I'm already in trouble just saying high to ya'll while on vacation. By the way nova bearings to that shore would be useful LOL:p.
 

74SkeeterHawk

Seaman
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Oct 11, 2008
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Well everyone Im back from the beach, Christmas is over( hoping everyone had a merry one) and Im back into the boat. I also fired up a photo bucket account so ya'll can check out my project with a little bit larger picture.

First off I got to brag about the new toolage "Santa" got me.....I been waiting for this stuff for about a month. Got a Ridgid 7" grinder with attachments, a 7 1/4" worm drive circular saw, and my favorite piece a 16 gallon wet dry vac that doubles as a leaf blower...sweet!

Before we went to the Cayman Islands I moved the boat out back...I think it will accualy work better than that cramped car port I was trying to work in. Better lighting and no worries about ventalation. It doesnt get crazzy cold here for very long so weather shouldnt be a factor either.

I pulled the boat off the trailer and set it on some 2x4's. this seems tpo be infinantly more stable than trying to work on the trailer. It also provides better opertunity to do maintanence on the trailer it self. the only thing Im thinking is well I live on a military installation so they may have something to say about where Ive chossen to put it but no matter, its easy enough to move.

I then got in with a huge pry bar and proceeded to remove what was left of the transom. I also got my new vac out and cleaned all the dirt, fiber dust, foam and rivets that had collected in the hull. Just doing that revealed a lot to me. I discovered that this boat had undergone a similar rework some years ago( God only knows when), and who ever did it didn't do a very good job. Discovered some delamination and air bubbles as well as an "oops" on my part when I cut the deck out.

So as it is now I'm ready to start grinding. I had a couple of questions. I got 80 and 50 grit sanding wheel but Im may accualy need to do some ripping and removing of material I could not do with a saw. What would you guys recomend for that job.

The gash I put into the hull...what would be the best war to reair that. I will be doing a complete lawup of the hull but I figured fulling in that gash with something might be in order. Peanut butter, resin, 5200????:rolleyes:

Well there you go guys all up to date. Here are the links to the photos I took recently....enjoy.


http://photobucket.com/74-Skeeter-Rebuild


16GalWetDryBlowerVacFront.jpg

ChristmasPresents.jpg

ReadyforGrinding2.jpg

woops.jpg

Delamination1.jpg
 

Nova II 260

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Hey Santa brought you some nice weaponry. One thing you might consider, Get a dust bag for that shop vac before you start doing a lot of FB grinding. That dust will eventually eat your shop vac. also blow and clean your tools out often.
The gash could be buttered in then lay some fb over it. From the outside you may wantto pretty it up with 5200 or PB. But more important. KEEP IT DRY! till you get it repaired. moisture will get in and leach through the fibers and eventually cause , blistering, delamination or worse.

I meant to send you my Cayman Island off-shore bank account number but got busy...
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74SkeeterHawk

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Oct 11, 2008
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Thanks Nova....I think I am going to do more than a patch. Im going to do a full lay up on the hull. From the looks of things I think that will be my best bet. As far as keeping it dry I think I am going to be out of luck tonight. We're scheduled for rain and I don't have anything to cover it. I might invest in a good heat gun to dry any trouble spots when it comes time for fiberglassing but till then let it air dry and then grind the hell out of it. Get as much of that bad glass up with out grinding a hole in it:eek:. I might look into a small pancake air compressor as well. Ill keep ya'll updated. Oh and I think I might make my self a little tent or something to cover me out there when im doing sensitive stuff. Might work......might not! We'll see:D.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

hi rob......nice stuff !....yer gonna love that grinder. :D

ok.....first you need to dry the hull.....see in pic 5 the weave of the roving cloth?.....if there is moisture....its in there........its gotta be totally dry or the resin wont bond in the reinforcing layer.

flip the hull and put a small ceramic heater with a fan in there and leave it for as long as you can.....at least a week or two.....(while your waiting for your glass and wood......(the wood has to dry for a minimum of a week any how.)

so after you rough and scuff the hull.....vaccume and clean with aceitone.

for the reinforcing layer.....i would do a double layer of either 3/4 oz csm or one oz.......(either 1.5 or two oz's.)....if you want super duper strong.....a thin veil type cloth over the csm and applied at the same time will be good.

i would guess at 8-10 gallons resin....(depending on the temp......search glassing in cooler temps). ....in the states you should be able to get a 5 gallon bucket of NON waxed for around 110 bux.....

ok......the deck......the 8 oz suggested is the minimum on ANY deck....reguardless of the type of cover....more is better....especially if you are going to carpet it.


HOW TO MEASURE YOUR BOAT FOR THE CORRECT AMOUNT OF CLOTH....

easy.....first of all.....you are using poly....that means you need csm....(chopped strand matt)...it comes in .75.....1 and 1.5 oz....(you can get two oz but lets keep it simple)

you are going to do a reinforcing layup.....so i would suggest two csm layers.

measure the boat for the width......the rolls come in 48 or 60 inch widths....u pick the best for you...

if your boat is 12 feet long....and you are doing two reinforcing layers.....thats 2x12 feet....(if you are too wide for the 60 inch roll....add another 12 feet....(6 feet per extra width)

then you are going to do your deck....another 2 x 12 feet csm. and one wrap for the bottom....so add another 12 feet

thats a minimum 60 feet....but add another 5% just in case....so thats 63 feet of 1 or 3/4 oz csm.

you can also do a veil on the hull..(the veil woven cloth is the exact same stuff you see at lows or home depot in the tiny bags).......so thats 12 feet long....and the deck is another 12 feet....so you need 24 feet of veil..(8 oz)... but add 5% for mistakes and just so you dont run out....so thats another foot or 16 ins......so just round it off higher and go to 26 feet.

BUT>>>>>you also want to do a stringer transom job.....

heres where it gets tricky.......if you have a 12 foot jon boat and are going to run a 15 hp motor......you wont need to double wrap the strings with 1708 bi ax......

the same 8 oz veil and csm treatment you are going to give the deck is just fine......(we are really going for waterproofing here not super stregnth.)

if you are on a 16 footer with a 85 hp.....then yes....lets wrap with the 25 oz bi ax.

to determine the amount of glass needed for the stringers....measure the expected height of them and multliply the number by a factor of 4 per wrap.

(eg......the height of the stringer is 6 ins....thats 12 inches for both sides...then the hull tab will be 3 inches either side.,...and an inch for the top......and 5% mess up factor......that gives you a factor of x4)

so that is 24 ins width per wrap......right? a 48 inch wide roll will give you 2 stringers per 12 foot section......(if you are buying 60 inch rolls...you will have left overs.....and its better to have too much than too little)

that boat has 3 stringers.....so you will need 2 x12 foot long sections for an individual wrap......thats 24 feet....but you have to wrap them twice with csm.....so add another 24 feet of csm.....then the veil (one layer at 24 feet)

so lets total that.....

hull....and deck.....63 feet.....and the stringers at 48 feet ...=111 feet of csm.....= 33 yards.

26 feet. for the deck and hull and 24 feet for the veil= 50 feet or approx 17 yards......(remember....this is for a supper duper strong hull).....two layers of csm will be more than fine......(actually.....withe the overlap on the stringers....the deck hull joint and the vril....you wont even need the hull reinforcement....possibly just in small sections where you feel its weak)

there will be enough left over for the tramsom if you dont mess up too bad.

and the really cool thing is with such light cloths....you can do all three layers at a time......and that will save you huge on resin......

....one thing to remember.......thats a lot of weight to add to a boat......so use as little resin as you can get away with.

heh heh heh......i hope i didnt confuse you with all of that.......

cheers
oops
 

74SkeeterHawk

Seaman
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

OH...MY...GOD! OK first things first, Im going to need is a cup of coffee and a calcualtor:D. That will help out a lot I need to be as precise as possible so not to spend to much money on one item. But first off I think I am going to get out there and start measuring everthing I know the length is 16 ft but I hope I can save on weight by grinding a lot of material down. I at least want to try and get that crappy roving layup somone did up. Get down to the orginal fiberglass. I wanted to start grinding today but it rained last night and I don't have any kind of measurements so before I jump the gun Ill get that done first. Thanks Oops really starting to feel lke one of the boys around here:p. Updates a comin'.
 

74SkeeterHawk

Seaman
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Oct 11, 2008
Messages
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

By the way I had planned on using Epoxy Resin over Poly. Is there any reason I should use Poly over Epoxy.....besides cost??? From what Ive been reading it seems to be a little more forgiving and easier to work with. Correct me if Im wrong.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Oct 18, 2007
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Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

skeeter the real reason for epoxy is stregnth......

that stuff is so strong that it is used in 200 mph boats.......you just dont need it for a craft your size.....you will never benifit from the advantages it has.

and its poly thats more forgiving........by allowing different cat rates and cure times.


cheers
oops
 

Nova II 260

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
681
Re: Soft Deck....Unsure waht to expect

Get a plastic drop cloth for cheap cover, duck tape it down.
BTW, there is no reason you shouldn't have a 200mph boat when done.
Lets see.. m_p(f) = {p^{(rn(n-1)+s(n+1))/2}\over N(p^r)} since we don't know your body weight there are a few unknowns.
please post pics....
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