When will we wake up?

[crunch]

Re: When will we wake up?

(and the real reason they hire illegal aliens is they don't pay workmen comp, or have to match SS deductions)

Exactly. Nobody hires illegals "cause they show up sober every day".

Ever been an employer?

 

[DJ]

Re: When will we wake up?

I do not think we can round them all up and deport them. It's too late for that now.

I think we need to identify them and mainstream them. Those that don't want to play by the rules can be deported.,

In the meantime, we need to stop the influx until we can implement solutions.

 

[woodrat]

Re: When will we wake up?

Sorry, but again, for those who are hearing impaired, I have seen it over and over again, the migrants do show up and work all day, and if they aren't sober, they sure look it and act it. The white americans tend to flake, complain and not finish the job.

I'm sure examples could be found that contradict both, but I have seen the same scene play out with different players many times.

And what about the old "free market", anyway? Why shouldn't Joe Homeowner or even Joe Contractor have the right to hire whoever they want for whatever wage someone is willing to work for? Who has the right to tell someone that they shoudn't be able to hire someone off the street to do some landscaping work or build a privacy fence?

I'll tell you who: the Contractor's Board. I know what it takes to obtain an Oregon Contractor's license, custom. Very little. Quickie little video based class and a written test that a chimp could pass. Oh, and a big fat bond. But there is nothing about the licensing process that ensures competency or honesty. It is an old fashioned Guild, plain and simple, and it gets me pretty PO'd when I see the state spending money setting up sting operations to bust people for mowing lawns without a contractor's license (Oregon has done that more than once).

You want to talk conservative thought and free market, well, the Contractor's Board is the opposite of all of that.

 

[crunch]

Re: When will we wake up?

I do not think we can round them all up and deport them. It's too late for that now.

I think we need to identify them and mainstream them. Those that don't want to play by the rules can be deported.,

In the meantime, we need to stop the influx until we can implement solutions.

You are trying to bail against the sea... you need to take the motivation away, then the illegal alien will stay away on their own.

Try my 2 part plan:

1. Make it a felony with a first time penalty of one year hard labor, second time 5 years, 3rd time 10 to enter this country illegally... and enforce it. ( hard labor is in the fields, doing just what they came here for in the first place... with an $8.00 per hr. charge to the grower... no workman comp. or matching SS.... the prison system insures them, but the money goes right back to the system) then deport them after sentence is severed.

2. Give a 30 day grace period, then start the round up.


They won't be back for round two.

 

[woodrat]

Re: When will we wake up?

I think that stopping the influx is going to have to come from south of the border. Those people are coming here because there is little to no opportunity where they are at. You start busting contractors for hiring them and harassing people in the Home Depot parking lot for hiring them and doing surprise raids in the strawberry fields and what not and all you do is just spend a bunch of time and money making a bunch of people's lives miserable without really getting at the root of the problem and people will STILL try to come here for work. They are already making a long, expensive and hazardous journey just to get here in the first place, there must be some powerful motivation behind that.

It's ironic that people here seem to hate and fear them so much, they have a drive to work hard and better their situation, at great personal cost and sacrifice, that is supposed to be what the American dream is all about. And meanwhile, those of us living it already tend to be complacent, lazy and feel entitled to the good life while doing as little as possible to attain it.

 

[crunch]

Re: When will we wake up?

I think that stopping the influx is going to have to come from south of the border. Those people are coming here because there is little to no opportunity where they are at. You start busting contractors for hiring them and harassing people in the Home Depot parking lot for hiring them and doing surprise raids in the strawberry fields and what not and all you do is just spend a bunch of time and money making a bunch of people's lives miserable without really getting at the root of the problem and people will STILL try to come here for work. They are already making a long, expensive and hazardous journey just to get here in the first place, there must be some powerful motivation behind that.

See post above.

It's ironic that people here seem to hate and fear them so much, they have a drive to work hard and better their situation, at great personal cost and sacrifice, that is supposed to be what the American dream is all about. And meanwhile, those of us living it already tend to be complacent, lazy and feel entitled to the good life while doing as little as possible to attain it.

Speak for yourself bub.. I've run crews all over Oregon and N. CA. and I always had one rule... get the job done.

Anyone that showed up late got notice, second time got fired... show up drunk? fired. Hung over, cool as long as the work didn't suffer, etc.

And you know what? I had happy crews as they knew where they stood and didn't have to pick up the slack of someone else.

 

[woodrat]

Re: When will we wake up?

"See post above."

Yeah I saw that post and I think it is totally wrong headed. Heavy on imprisonment and punishment of people who are not necessarily criminals. Your solution treats these people like they have criminal intent.

"Speak for yourself bub"

I've seen you apply a much worse judgement than this to the whole population of New Orleans and more.

 

[crunch]

Re: When will we wake up?

Yeah I saw that post and I think it is totally wrong headed. Heavy on imprisonment and punishment of people who are not necessarily criminals. Your solution treats these people like they have criminal intent.

Can you spell deterrent?... do you know what it means?

My plan is not xenophobic, just realistic.

As long as there are criminals willing to hire the illegal aliens (and yes, I classify your buddies in those ranks) the problem will never end unless we take the motivation out of the equation.

Then they will stay home and maybe... just maybe, fix the problems in their own county... to the benefit of us all.... or do you want Mexico to be forever poor.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: When will we wake up?

[We've been down this road with PW2 before...Illegal alien isn't in his vocabulary.

Pdub understands it very well cbc. Illegal aliens+=votes for his bankrupt ideology.

 

[woodrat]

Re: When will we wake up?

You know, I may annoy the crap out of you and others with my viewpoints, but I am anything but stupid. I can spell deterrent and I know what it means. I am just saying that my inclination is to move away from coming up with new things to criminalize. You are obviously more comfortable with making new crimes out of contractual arrangements between adults. You seem to come from that school of thought that is vengeful, righteously angry and sees enemies everywhere.

I see the problems with immigration from south of the border, but I don't see sub-humans, evil intent, or enemies. Therefore I think differently about how to solve the things that are real problems. That doesn't make me stupid, or un-american or your enemy. Unfortunately, the whole neo-conservative establishment these days is really into the good/evil thing and seeing everyone who is not in lock step with their thinking as enemies who need to be destroyed, including democrats, non-christians and aliens of all kinds.

Something that seems to be missing from your proposal is what to do about all that low wage work that needs to be done after you kick out 11 million migrant workers. Assuming that your program actually works to scare everyone away, you won't have all 11 million of those people locked up in prison work camps like you want. Where does the rest of the needed labor come from?

No I don't want Mexico to be forever poor. I said up above that pressure needs to be brought to bear on Mexico's government to start fixing things at home so there won't be the incentive for so many to come here. However, we've applied no such pressure and the Mexican government is corrput beyond even our own. It won't be easy and it won't happen soon. But I would rather see that than more police state.

 

[ZmOz]

Re: When will we wake up?

Ever been an employer?

Yep. I have 4 employees.

I do show up to work stoned on ocassion, so I guess you're right woodrat. 8)

 

[crunch]

Re: When will we wake up?

Are you licensed, or just a wanabe?..

 

[ZmOz]

Re: When will we wake up?

Are you licensed, or just a wanabe?..

Licensed for what? I am not a contractor. I have a business license in two states...

 

[crunch]

Re: When will we wake up?

Post Subject: Re: When will we wake up? Posted: 10:28pm Today
You know, I may annoy the crap out of you and others with my viewpoints

No, but I often wonder if you are taking a typing class... 450 words to make your point where you could in 30... don't you get blisters?

 

[crunch]

Re: When will we wake up?

Are you licensed, or just a wanabe?..

Licensed for what? I am not a contractor. I have a business license in two states...

K... I'll assume you didn't read my post before I did an edit... hope, hope 8)

How would you feel if someone came into your bucks and out bid you... could undercut you because they didn't pay biz license, taxes, SS contribution, etc.

I have to also cough up Bond and Liability to the tune of about $15,00 a year.

How would you compete with the under the table guy?

 

[ZmOz]

Re: When will we wake up?

How would you compete with the under the table guy?

Notify the appropriate authorities and then spread nasty rumors.

I agree that there should be much stiffer penalties for anyone hiring illegals. As far as I'm concerned every last one of them should be rounded up and thrown back over the border tomarrow morning. Anybody hiring them can go with them. Sure, it would cause a few problems, but we'd get over it pretty quick.

I was in LA on may 1st when all the mexicans protested, apparently to show us all how bad off we are without them. It was great! Traffic was a breeze, and there was no line at the chicken place! (where a legal mexican was doing a very good job)

 

[crunch]

Re: When will we wake up?

Two thumbs up.

 

[crunch]

Re: When will we wake up?

BTW, what's up with your gophers?

 

[PW2]

Re: When will we wake up?

E-Coli is a serious problem

Illegal Immigration is a serious problem

There is absolutely no evidence of any sort that the two problems are connected in any way.

 

[woodrat]

Re: When will we wake up?

"(where a legal mexican was doing a very good job) "

how do you know, did you check his papers?