Did I winterize it right? Anti-Freeze Fill Up

[enginesilo]

Hi all, wanted to get some insight if I winterized and got anti-freeze into my outdrive water pickup tube and the exhaust manifolds properly. Hoping someone can shed some light that uses anti-freeze. I know many say air doesn't freeze, but I've used Anti-freeze for a long time and its never done me wrong. So this is a thread about using anti-freeze, not just draining.

My engine is a 5.0 GXI with a duo-prop outdrive, this is my first year with this engine.

I went ahead and drained the manifolds, drained the engine block, and I also removed the tube off the circulation pump, and both of the tubes on the water/impeller pump until there was no more water coming out. After it was all drained, I proceeded to fill with anti-freeze from all the tubes that come off the Thermostat (1 tube to each exhaust manifold, 1 tube to the circulation pump, and 1 tube to water pump if I remember correctly). All that went as it normally does and I filled until the passages were full until the tubes were about to overflow. What I'm unsure of is 2 things:

-When I filled the 1 tube on the water impeller pump that is the pickup tube, it never drained anti-freeze out the outdrive. On my old boat I could hear the anti-freeze pour out as the plumbing went directly out the outdrive. Should this happen with this motor and outdrive setup? Should 1 of the 2 tubes on the water impeller pump drain directly out of the outdrive when anti-freeze is poured into it?

-When filling the manifolds from the 2 smaller tubes off the thermostat housing, should the tube fill up at the thermostat side and no longer take anti-freeze, or should it fill enough to come out the exhaust and out the back of the boat at the outdrive where the water normally exits? Not sure if the anti-freeze would make it over the riser angle, but I wasn't sure. Is it normal to just fill up, and then work its way to the thermostat side of the tube? Or should it make its way out the exhaust system and out the back of the boat?

Seems like it all went to plan other than these 2 cases where this could be the norm, or I need to do something differently.

Thanks

 

[poconojoe]

Not sure about all your questions. Hopefully someone with that knowledge will chime in.

I do want to note that when you're all done, all liquids should be drained completely. Never leave any liquids in your engine. You can run antifreeze through the system as insurance for any trapped water in any little spaces, but it absolutely needs to be drained for winterization.

And, you are using non-toxic antifreeze, not standard automotive type...correct?

 

[USA_boater]

Not sure about all your questions. Hopefully someone with that knowledge will chime in.

I do want to note that when you're all done, all liquids should be drained completely. Never leave any liquids in your engine. You can run antifreeze through the system as insurance for any trapped water in any little spaces, but it absolutely needs to be drained for winterization.

And, you are using non-toxic antifreeze, not standard automotive type...correct?

Yeah you guys scared me into doing that...I filled my motor with antifreeze (non-toxic -75F) but ultimately drained it out a few weeks later for fear of freezing. But I am glad it most certainly diluted any remaining water.

I'd also like to know the answer to his questions. On my 4.3GL which should be similar to his 5.0 GXi, if I run water through the flush port (which plumbs into the raw water intake hose), I do see water exit the outdrive if the engine isn't running. I would expect pouring AFZ into that line to do the same?

 

[BRICH1260]

It sounds like you did it right, by filling the block via the thermostat hoses after draining. Hold the manifold hoses up high and fill till they wont take any more, they may not drain out the back end depending on how high your risers are.

I also suggest changing the oil in the motor and drive and replace the fuel filter.

 

[QBhoy]

Mmm. Some maybe not so accurate advice here. It sounds like you did it right.
Jusy to confirm, all hoses off the TStat and fill until liquid runs back at you. That way the exhast manifolds are filled and should run out the drive. Also the engine block is full too.
If you have an engine driven pump it may not easily run out the drive though. Maybe that’s the issue here.
If you aren’t changing the oil in the drive before winter (I don’t), then maybe crack open the drive oil drain screw jusybto check no water comes out after sitting and settling. VP love to take in a bit of water to the drive.

 

[Lou C]

OK, the one thing I can add is that you most likely have a power steering cooler on the back of the engine, behind the starboard side exhaust riser. These usually do have a drain on them, but they can be tough to get at. My Cobra is the same way. What I've done for years is to put the drive all the way down. Then disconnect the raw water intake hose that goes from the transom to either the thermo housing (Cobra) or the impeller housing (Volvo) and hold it down to drain. Then hold that hose up and put a funnel in it. Fill it till you hear AF drain out the drive water intakes. If the drive is all the way down, the AF should flow though via gravity. About the exhaust manifolds, with both the old Cobra one piece manifolds and the Volvo center riser system I installed last year, the AF will run out the exhaust bellows on the ground when you fill them, assuming you have standard height risers.
And the comment about draining out the antifreeze, if you are going to do that, just save your money and leave it dry. Because the whole point of antifreeze is to keep air out (oxygen + moisture) which is what causes iron to corrode! Fe O2=iron oxide, you keep out the O2 and you reduce corrosion! I use either -100 Marine AF with corrosion inhibitors or Sierra PG antifreeze mixed to 50/50. Using the Sierra takes a bit longer as you have to have a PG hydrometer but its cheaper than the -100.

 

[Shaper79]

That’s funny. Fill with antifreeze then dump it all out.

 

[USA_boater]

I am going to mix 50/50 in a tupperware container and put it in my deep freezer (0*F)...if that doesn't crack the lid on the container, then I'm going to just have faith in my methods next time and stop worrying...I know the Camco will do better than 50/50 if you run all 5 gallons through it...when I drained it, it was all same deep pink as what went in 100%...so I know 50/50 should be a good test.

 

[Walt T]

I would never mix water into the antifreeze. Thats a no no

 

[Horigan]

I would never mix water into the antifreeze. Thats a no no

Are you saying this because you believe pure antifreeze has a lower freezing point, or because you think there may be some residual water in the system that will dilute the antifreeze (which is a valid concern)? Realize that pure antifreeze concentrate has a higher freezing point than an a 50/50 solution. It's the solution (mixture) that lowers the freezing point and raises the boiling point. See the graph below.

 

[Walt T]

Marine and RV antifreeze are not meant to be mixed. Automotive antifreeze is, but you shouldn't use that

 

[USA_boater]

My point was that if used the Camco to intake 5 gallons of -75F RV antifreeze into the motor that it would be likely less dilution than 50/50 so that if i did a test with 50/50 and it didn't freeze in my deep freezer @ 0*F, then that "should" prove this is a safe method of winterization.

 

[Walt T]

So you make the extra work for yourself to mix it, and then worry all winter just to save a few bucks? It's your boat, do what ya want. I'm not gonna say it's ok. I would not mix it. I wouldn't use antifreeze either, but that's just me.

 

[USA_boater]

I am NOT mixing it and not trying to save money...I am attempting to intake 100% AFZ into the motor but assuming some residual water will remain and dilute the AFZ to some degree. So based on that assumption, I am going to do a test with AFZ in a container in my freezer that has been diluted so then I can say it is safe in my boat.

 

[Lou C]

OK there is a bit of confusion with these antifreezes that are rated for burst temp, that -50,-60,-75 and -100 is burst temp not freeze temp like with auto antifreezes. The RV/storage antifreezes are not supposed to expand when they get hard. The issue is you really don't know what the freeze temp is, unless you can take a sample and put it in the freezer to prove it won't freeze at the lowest temp your freezer will get to. While they are not supposed to expand, I would not want to chance it and therefore go with the most protection, either the -100 (which stays liquid down to about -45-50 or so, or I mix up a 60/40 mix of Sierra PG antifreeze and that gives you approx -40 freeze temp which is about the same thing but cheaper than the -100. If your lowest temp is not as cold as the coldest temp your freezer will get to, then put it in the freezer and see what happens.

Not to beat a dead horse BUT,
it is easier, safer and better to simply drain and back fill with the AF if you want to use AF....why?
well....
1) you know everything drained, therefore very little concern with any dilution
2) sometimes the impeller won't pull in the AF because the flow is not pressurized like the water hose and you can burn the impeller and overheat the engine
3) you are not having to worry about the tank running out of AF while trying to fog the engine.

the only time I'd use one of those tanks, is if I had an engine that was closed cooled, and I added an electric pump to the tank to pressurize the flow. If I repower the boat with a new engine, 2 things it WILL have to make the maintenance less of a pain, are closed cooling and a remote oil filter.

 

[USA_boater]

Well Lou, it is a good point about the flow. The manual says not to use muffs to apply the AFZ on a Volvo or risk the impeller (I assume). But my boat has the engine compartment-based hose inlet that goes directly into the raw water pump. I'm confident the pump/impeller are primed both fast and sufficiently when using the tank system properly.

 

[Lou C]

That would reduce the risk because the flow does not have to go up hill essentially from the water intakes to the level of the transom mount hose.
However...there is something very satisfying about....
pulling the plugs and watching raw water spurt out...even if probing with a screwdriver is needed....
and then when you know its all empty....filling with AF...no worries about impellers....AF running out before the engine is fogged, etc.

 

[USA_boater]

Well the main reason I wanted to use AFZ was for corrosion...this boat was run in a freshwater lake all its life but this particular lake is a higher salt content (which is why the striper do so well). There was a lot of flakes that came out when I picked the drains and flushed the block and exhaust with a hose (engine off) as you described for me to do in a different thread. I figured using the AFZ would keep it safe from air and protect against further corrosion vs. just draining the H2O out of it. If the boat was newer and run in the new lake it is primarily run in, then I'd probably less concerned about AFZ & corrosion. make sense?

 

[Lou C]

I do think filling the engine and manifolds with a good PG antifreeze with corrosion inhibitors over the storage season helps. Even in freshwater, you will get corrosion. When I was doing my top end engine overhaul last summer I also installed a brand new center riser exhaust system (Barr aftermarket). I ran the engine a bunch of times, getting the carb dialed in etc, all on the water hose, not in salt water at all. And when I winterized it, while draining the exhaust manifolds, the water coming out was for sure rusty! So I will continue to manually drain & back fill but I use the best stuff I can find, either the West Marine -100 marine AF or I mix up my own batch of Sierra PG antifreeze (this can actually be used as an engine coolant, so it might be even better in terms of corrosion protection). With the Sierra a 50/50 mix gives you about -26 freeze protection, a 60/40 AF/water mix gives you -40 or so. More than good enough, and much much better than the -50 or -60 cheap stuff.

 

[USA_boater]

Well I was using the Stabil brand -75F PG. It was twice the cost of the cheaper house-brand -50F stuff.