2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

[Norseman]

Greeting from Florida.

Here is the scenario:

Bought this little 18' skiff a week ago.
Had a mechanic look at the engine before I wrote the check:
Compression good, sparkplugs good, low hours, no abuse..Thumbs up.

Installed 2 brand new Group 24 batteries as well as switch, 3 stage charger, dual bilge pumps, etc.
Emptied the tank, got fresh 90 octane NO ethanol fuel.

After all that it takes me 10 to 15 tries to start the engine when cold.
(Cold in Florida is a relative term in August..Even cold is 85 degrees)

Previous owner told me the key has a choke function, push up on the key before cranking or some such thing.

I have tried pushing, pulling, cursing etc, but it still takes a buch of tries.
Once it fires I use the idle-lever to keep it running and to warm it up.
Once warm it runs good, have done several full-throttle runs to clear out soot and gunk as the boat and motor has very low hours and have been sitting mostly.

When warm the engine starts right up, just by touching the key..Almost magic, doesn't even crank for half a second and fires up.

I have a feeling the choke does not work, and that idle is too low.

Question # 1: I there a way to disconnect the electric choke on the control box and install a manual choke instead..? (If there is a choke, I don't have the manuals on the engine)

Question # 2: Easy way to adjust idle speed....?

 

[oldcatamount]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

Try this; there should be a red lever on the choke selenoid, it should be in the horizontal position.

 

[Norseman]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

Try this; there should be a red lever on the choke selenoid, it should be in the horizontal position.

Roger on that.

Will take a look and report back.

Thanks

 

[Norseman]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

Would that be the little red lever in the middle of the picture?
It was horisontal.

Tried to start it 3 times just now:
Once with the idle lever all the way up in case the choke is not working, then a couple of times with the idle lever in the down position after having "pushed" on the key before cranking...No cigar, no start.

The advantage of course is that the boat is theft-proof..Nobody can get it started.

 

[oldcatamount]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

the red lever looks to be correct. Do you pump the primer bulb a few times before trying to start the motor? If so, how does it feel..does it "firm up" after a couple of squeezes?

 

[Norseman]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

Yeah, the primer bulb stays pretty firm all the time, althought I give it a "just to make sure squeese" now and then.

One of my buddies just sent an email saying the choke system is really a primer that will pump in extra fuel when the key is being pushed in AND the engine is being cranked.

Guess I screwed up then as I pushed IN the key to "activate" the choke before cranking...No wonder it was uh, cranky.

it worked, now I will repeat the procedure after it cools down and if successful every time, I will tip my glass to having the problem gone away..

(I know, I want celebrate too early, it could have been a lucky thing being Sunday and the Gods are smiling in the skies )

 

[Rick.]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=430037
Sounds to me like you've solved the problem. You may want to look at this thread for a bit more information. Certainly works well for me. Best of luck. Rick.

 

[Norseman]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

Sounds to me like you've solved the problem.

Well, yes looks like it but I didn't solve it, my buddy with the email did..

Just now back from the dock and it little beast started right away while doing the "push-while-ya-crank" trick.

The confusing part is that I have to pull on the key to stop it.

In other words: Push to start, push to stop...Is that a home made fix or mod, or is it supposed to stop when I turn the key too off without pulling on it.?

Also, there is no alarm when I turn the ignition on...
Guess it is supposed to have an over-heat alarm?

Got the oil injection disconnected and instead mixing fuel in the gas.
Wonder if the alarm got disconnected at the same time in case it had a "Low Oil" warning or some such thingy?

(Yes, I need to get a manual for the engine, but when I google it and get results like "Free Manual Download" they all want money..)

I will pay money for a hard-copy, but not for a down-load.

You may want to look at this thread for a bit more information.

I did thanks.

Question: what is the model year range for my engine...?

J50PL LSRS

 

[nasty79z28]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

If you have the VRO pump disconnected you will not get a beep when you turn the key to the on position. If you want to make sure the alarm still works disconnect you temperature sensor (should be close to the thermostat at the rear of the engine) and ground out the harness end to the engine block with the key on, you should get a constant alarm.

As far as having to pull the key back out sounds like you may need a new key switch. Push in to choke but the key switch should be spring loaded to return to normal after release.

 

[nasty79z28]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

Just to make sure you are using the key correctly. To start turn to on position, push-hold to choke and turn to start all at the same time, hold till engine starts but no longer than 20 seconds, as soon as the engine starts release key. If the switch is ok it should return to the run position and deactivate the choke all by itself.

If you need to crank for long periods not exceeding 20 seconds give the starter a minute to cool before cranking again.

 

[Norseman]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

Okay Mr. Nasty and thanks for the reply.

I will trouble shoot the alarm as you suggested. (when it stops raining.)

As for using the key properly:

I never spin the starter for more than 4 to 6 seconds.
(A big no-no in my proffesional life as a pilot..Same principle on airplane motors, easy to overheat the starter.)

To stop the outboard: I turn the key to the off position...The engine keeps running...Then I push the key IN and UP against a spring..The engine stops now I pull the key out.

Not sure if that is by the book..?

Again, that is why I screwed up in the first place: Push on the key to start the motor, push on the key to stop the motor, did not make sense..

 

[nasty79z28]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

Doesn't sound right to me. Hopefully someone else will chime in and confirm. I'm new to boating so I don't want to tell you for sure the switch is bad.

 

[Rick.]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

Push to stop motor ??? Well that's not by the book either. I would suggest maybe your flooding it and that's what is actually stopping it. Rick.

 

[Craig-]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

Switch wiring basics.

M to M closed when key is off. Mag wire is grounded.
M to M open, B to A closed when key is on.
B to S closed when key is turned to start.

 

[Craig-]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

If the VRO works and you have the tank etc., hook it back up. Many people disconnect these because they have heard bad things about them. The motor runs better with them and you don't have the mixing issues.

 

[DJ]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

The key function is not correct. When you turn it to OFF, it should shut off.

The others were correct on testing your overheat alarm.

I hope that's a light boat. A 50 on an 18 footer is asking a lot of that engine. If it doesn't turn 5500 RPM at Wide Open, you will kill it in short order.

 

[Norseman]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

I hope that's a light boat. A 50 on an 18 footer is asking a lot of that engine. If it doesn't turn 5500 RPM at Wide Open, you will kill it in short order.

Very light boat: Just a skiff, it will do 19.5 knots at full throttle.
Don't have an RPM gauge, but Mr. Johnson is howling @ Wide Open and probably doing 5500 RPM.

I will only use it at trolling speeds however, doing lazy runs on the canals and rivers here in Fort Lauderdale.

 

[Norseman]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

I would suggest maybe your flooding it and that's what is actually stopping it. Rick.

Hmm, no: I think it is ignition related.
Pushing the key IN stops the motor right now..And it starts right up a second later, or 1/2 hour later, no need to clear a flooded engine.

If the VRO works and you have the tank etc., hook it back up. Many people disconnect these because they have heard bad things about them. The motor runs better with them and you don't have the mixing issues.

Heard too many horror stories about the VROs quitting after 6 to 7 years so I had my mech disconnect it.
Yup, I get tired of mixing, but I sleep better knowing it is almost bullet-proof that way.

Switch wiring basics.

M to M closed when key is off. Mag wire is grounded.
M to M open, B to A closed when key is on.
B to S closed when key is turned to start.

Yeah, I need to dig into the elctrics in the control box.
Did a quick search for a new one, but it is out of production.
The next model control box, part # 5006180 retails @ $350.00 AND I need some kind of adapter or harness kit, plus new cables plus paying the mx to put it all together.
Total for parts $600.00 and another buck and a half to the mech.

It ain't going to happen, will try to sort out the old box, or just push the key IN to stop it..

 

[Craig-]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

The VROs got a bad reputation due to the very early ones going bad or blamed for being the problem when they really were not. The one on your motor is very reliable and has built in warning, both for failure and oil level, fool proof really. I would not disable it unless it were a broken pump that someone didn't want to pay the steep price to replace. It oils the motor much more efficiently than pre-mix and uses way less oil.

The control switch can be replaced if you can't repair it. Isolate the problem doing continuity checks and go from there. The inside of this switch is simply contacts and a spring but getting it open and back together is almost not possible. Some have metal case that have bent tabs holding in the guts others are molded plastic. Replacing it is easy once the control is apart or it may be just a wire issue.

Tach gauge would be a good investment, try Faria's website, they have some discontinued gauges that they sell cheap. You have the wiring already in place and the space to mount it.

Your rig looks nice, noticed the chain through the wheel, do you keep it parked on the street?

 

[Norseman]

Re: 2004 Johnson 50 HP, 2-stroke, Hard to start

The one on your motor is very reliable and has built in warning, both for failure and oil level, fool proof really.

Hmm, good news.
The old timers who recommended disabling the pump may have heard the rumors from the early models then.

Don't think anything is broken as the engine has very low hours and is in good condtion.

Replacing it is easy once the control is apart or it may be just a wire issue.

Will look into that as well, good point.
Where do I get the control switch?
(Been using Crowleys Marine in the past, but they don't even show the control box, and especially not individual parts from the box.)

Tach gauge would be a good investment, try Faria's website, they have some discontinued gauges that they sell cheap. You have the wiring already in place and the space to mount it.

Possible wiring, but not big round hole for the gauge.
The boat was stripped when I bought it: The only instrument was a
volt-meter and it was disconnected.
Kind of like it that way, althought good instruments could protect the motor.
Being old fashioned I bought a cheap compas and will bolt it on the center console in front of my face.
It has 2 wires for the internal light..Now I got to lay down on my back with a flashlight between the teeth, trying to hook up the wires to a power source and to splice in the volt meter as well. Or I could hire a midget to do it for me.

Your rig looks nice, noticed the chain through the wheel, do you keep it parked on the street?

Nah, the pic was from the day I bought the rig:
Paid cash, no insurance and no registration numbers or sticker.
It would be an easy target to tow away in the middle of the night.