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Finnish fishing boat overhaul [Splashed 2017]

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  • Finnish fishing boat overhaul [Splashed 2017]

    Hey!

    This is my first post, I've been lurking and reading through many of the great rebuild-threads during the last month. Now that my own project is finally becoming reality, I've got some more specific questions I'm hoping someone could shed some light on.

    I'm a 29 year old cinematographer from Helsinki, Finland. I've spent all of my life in close proximity to water, and most of my free time is somehow linked to our alarmingly polluted sea (you can read more about it at http://www.puhdasitameri.fi/en). I spend my free time fishing, diving or traveling around the local archipelago meeting friends and relatives.

    I've been having dreams about a boat of my own for ages, but now I've finally done something about it. I wanted a boat that could combine all the aforementioned activities with longer trips around the local archipelago.

    This is what I came up with as the ideal boat:





    It's a local built fishing/work boat from the late 70's and early 80's. It's all GRP and built like a tank, a semi displacement single skin hull with an inboard shaft drive with diesel engines around 40-100hp. The model with the front pilothouse is still today sold for approx 20.000€, they're quite rare and people seem to hold on to them.

    This brings me to what I recently bought:





    It's the same hull with a cabin the last owner built himself. The hull and stringers are in great shape under all the dirt and crap. The old pilothouse is in ok shape but far too big, ugly and top-heavy. The engine is an old BMW D50 with raw water cooling (the Baltic sea has a really low salt percentage). It's been going for only 150 hours this far, even though it's quite old.


    So, my project will be all about converting the boat I bought into our own version of the boat I posted before.

    I've got a rough project outline planned out:

    1. Spring 2013 - Boat is being transported to my dads summer cottage (tools galore, electricity and space to work in)
    2. Removal of old paint and sanding of the hull. Building of a tent over the boat.
    3. Repaint / Gelcoating and fixing the steel "plank" that's attached to the keel.
    4. Demolishing of the old pilothouse. Salvaging everything I can. Vacuum bagging the engine & other mechanical parts hurt by dust.
    5. Removal of old deck and sanding/cleaning the hull, stringers and lip. Detaching the rails.
    6. Building new deck and pilothouse out of Okoume ply. Glassing it all in and topcoating everything.
    7. Interior work


    I've been reading everything I can about glassing and boatbuilding since a few months back. Many of the threads here have been tremendously helpful. But some things are still unclear.

    1. If the gelcoat underneath all that old paint is in ok shape, should I just sand it down to the old gel and repaint it with some epoxy paint? Should I completely remove the old paint or is it enough to rough it up? (the blue part, the red antifouling is going anyway to be redone with something similar) If the gel is good, then is there any reason to re-gel it? And would it be done on top of the old gel or will I have to remove all of the old one?
    2. What would you do to the stainless steel keelguard that runs along the whole hull? My thought is just to buff it and clean it thoroughly? There's one spot where one bolt has cracked and the guard is bulging off the keel with the old bolt hole exposed. Is there anything I can do about that without removing the whole thing? It's really sturdy and the insides are bone dry, so I don't think it leaks.
    3. Would you recommend the Okoume to be used for the deck parts that will be under strain? What thickness would be good for the pilot house walls and the deck?(my thoughts this far are around 7-8mm for the walls and 10mm for the deck)
    4. What sort of system would you use to join the deck to the stringers and the pilothouse to the deck and hull? Glue? Screws? Epoxy or poly PB?


    I will post more questions and photos and thoughts as I go along. It's all theoretical at this point since I'm going to start working on the boat in april, but I'll be buying supplies during the winter and putting up a detailed plan of the project before that.

    I'm really thankful for any help, I'm so excited about the boat that I can barely sleep. Huge thanks to Oops and Ondavr and others who gave me the confidence to buy the boat and start this project!

    Best,
    Mikael
    Last edited by jbcurt00; December 10th, 2017, 01:36 PM.
    Finnish 30ft fishing boat overhaul

  • #2
    Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

    Welcome Red Herring,

    That is going to be a wonderful project and when you are done making it your own, you will be one proud mariner...

    Congratulations on catching the fever and I will be coming aboard to watch, learn, cheer and help if possible.

    I'm on my lunch break right now and gotta get back to the grind, but others will be chiming in to help you out with your current questions...

    Have Fun!
    Gus
    Why a Fiberglass Boat?...Because they are,"The more beautiful, more seaworthy, more elegant, more easier to get chicks in, nicer, more common, more socially accepted, more politically correct boats."Quote by oops!
    Tight Lines and Float, Float On!
    Notice: All links to previous photos have been kidnapped by Photobucket.
    They no longer allow 3rd party hosting unless you fork over $400
    If you need to see any photos from my thread, PM me

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul



      A shot of the insides. Under the panel are two really heavy bags of sand for stability. I'm hoping to remove these since the new cabin will shift the weight up front. At least all the stringers visible were in really good shape. I was expecting some major waterlogged mush but was happily surprised. Everything seems solid. My thought is to rough them up and glass them in before installing a new deck.



      Current interior. I'm hoping to salvage at least the rudder and the windows, possibly some gauges as well. Depending on how well they clean up.



      The fantasy boats deck, I'm hoping to make something similar eventually. Simple, rugged and self draining. And easy access to all the mechanics in case I can afford a new engine at some point. The width measurement has the red line marked too long. The cabin is 165cm wide, I'm hoping to extend mine with about 25cm in width and length. The boat itself is 30 ft (9m long and 2.8m wide).
      Finnish 30ft fishing boat overhaul

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

        Thanks Gus for the warm welcome, I'm happy if I'll manage to entertain someone else during the course of this project, if even for a minute!
        Finnish 30ft fishing boat overhaul

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

          Originally posted by Red Herring View Post
          1. If the gelcoat underneath all that old paint is in ok shape, should I just sand it down to the old gel and repaint it with some epoxy paint? Should I completely remove the old paint or is it enough to rough it up? (the blue part, the red antifouling is going anyway to be redone with something similar) If the gel is good, then is there any reason to re-gel it? And would it be done on top of the old gel or will I have to remove all of the old one?
          2. What would you do to the stainless steel keelguard that runs along the whole hull? My thought is just to buff it and clean it thoroughly? There's one spot where one bolt has cracked and the guard is bulging off the keel with the old bolt hole exposed. Is there anything I can do about that without removing the whole thing? It's really sturdy and the insides are bone dry, so I don't think it leaks.
          3. Would you recommend the Okoume to be used for the deck parts that will be under strain? What thickness would be good for the pilot house walls and the deck?(my thoughts this far are around 7-8mm for the walls and 10mm for the deck)
          4. What sort of system would you use to join the deck to the stringers and the pilothouse to the deck and hull? Glue? Screws? Epoxy or poly PB?

          The following suggestions are my own and do not necessarily reflect what a professional boat technician might do, instead, these are my interpretations of the things I have tried to learn here on the forum...

          1- If its in good shape, you might be able to do some touch ups and re polish it and be done, however, if it has been painted, that usually means the gel was in pretty bad shape, so they covered it up with some paint...
          If, you find that the gel underneath is in decent condition, but un-restorable, you can just sand and repaint with no problem...however, if the boat is going to live in the water, it might be best to re-gel the bottom and possibly add some anti-fouling paint...

          2-You should be able to install a new Stainless Steel bolt sealed up with some 3M 5200, and be done with it, if it is sound...This is another good reason for the posting of pics, so we can see what you see...

          3-I am personally not familiar with Okoume plywood, but if it is flat, dry, and assembled with waterproof glue, it should be OK...as far as thickness, thicker is usually better for structural areas, as long as you don't impose too large of a weight penalty to the capacity of the hull...

          4-Personally, I like using PB, since it is strong especially once it is layered with CSM and 1708, it can be made into whatever thickness you need for a particular task, and sets up fairly quickly, which allows you to continue working...although, most any other system will work as long as you do it correctly...Screws are not really in my list of choices, except to temporarily hold parts together, due to the fact that they can be a source of allowing water into your wood, although that too, can be overcome with proper use of a sealant like 3M 5200...Glues are also a good alternative as long as they are waterproof...some of the types we use here in the States is Titebond III, PL Premium Adhesive, and Gorilla Glue...

          Hope this helps answer some of your questions...

          If I messed up with any of suggestions, one of the more knowledgeable guys will be along shortly to point you in the right direction...

          Best Regards
          Gus
          Why a Fiberglass Boat?...Because they are,"The more beautiful, more seaworthy, more elegant, more easier to get chicks in, nicer, more common, more socially accepted, more politically correct boats."Quote by oops!
          Tight Lines and Float, Float On!
          Notice: All links to previous photos have been kidnapped by Photobucket.
          They no longer allow 3rd party hosting unless you fork over $400
          If you need to see any photos from my thread, PM me

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

            I know almost nothing about fiberglass except that it can get itchy,.......

            But I'm going to have to follow along here,...Looks like an awesome build,....

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

              Thanks Gus! I'll just have to wait and see what is to be found under the old paint. I'd also be happy to post a pic of the keelguard problem, but the boat is currently on the other side of the country. Your suggestions sounds reassuring, I'll just have to dig around a bit and see if the glass around the hole is damaged somehow. If not, I'll do as you suggested. The season up here is quite short, five or six months a year. So the boat will be off the drink at least half of the year. And since I'm planning on keeping my diving gear and a compressor onboard, I'm thinking about skipping the antifouling. I could easily scrub the hull a few times during the season to keep it clean. Don't know if that really works for sure.

              Up here the Okoume ply is apparently considered the nr 1 choice for boat construction, it seems to be a lot lighter than most other plies, and can be bought in really good quality. I'll keep researching and calculating the possible costs for different alternatives.

              Gus, just to clarify. When you're talking about PB are you referring to a polyester mix or epoxy? I'm hoping that poly will be sufficient for most things, but I'm still unsure about hull-deck fittings around the cabin (knees?) and if poly will properly mate with the old hull. I'm glassing them in anyway, so it might be given it works. But am I correct if I'm stating that the plywood used for the pilothouse ought to be drenched in epoxy for a moisture seal? Or will poly resin and some mat finished off with a top coat be sufficient?

              And I have to agree about the screws. It feels really counter-productive to start screwing holes into something you've just tried to seal off from leaks and moisture. I guess it'll be PB on top of the stringers when laying down the roughed up and glassed deck. Then glassing all the parts I can reach from underneath.



              Another shot of the fantasy boat. The construction is fairly simple, and the fact that it can be made slightly bigger is apparent in this photo. The cabin underneath could really use some more space. Only the side walls seem to be curved, doesn't seem all too impossible to replicate.



              Here's a set of navigation lights I got for free. I'm hoping to use these and keep the overall materials similar throughout the boat. Using stainless steel whenever possible and keeping the solutions simple and durable. I guess I'll have to find a anchor light to match the set though.

              I spent the day at the library studying all the boat building books I could get a hold of. But to be honest, this forum has been much more helpful than what the books had to offer.

              Started looking around for nice older Dorade-vents and a simple danish heater called Refleks. Looking for something like these:

              Click image for larger version

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              Click image for larger version

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              (Refleks MK66 oil-stove, can be used for cooking and heating)
              Finnish 30ft fishing boat overhaul

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              • #8
                Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

                And thanks Teamster, nice to hear you like it! Can't wait to start grinding and messing about for real. If I'm lucky I'll have about two months of free time to work on the boat next summer, I wonder how far that will get me?

                If I work 40 hours a week I'll be up to 320 hours. There's not much else to do at the summer place, but I guess a few days off now and then will be necessary to stay sane?
                Finnish 30ft fishing boat overhaul

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                • #9
                  Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

                  Yep, PB is basically Polyester resin with a combination of Cabosil/Aerosil plus Chopped Fibers...If the boat is fiberglass, you will be fine using nothing but poly, even for all the new structure...just like you said, put a coat of resin on the wood to soak in, then cover with a layer or three[ up to you] of CSM and the Finnish equivalent of 1708 biaxial cloth...

                  A good reference for the materials we will mention can be found here... http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=286013 ...or here... http://www.*****************/

                  For curved sections, you could also get thinner sheets of plywood, if available and curve them to fit, then laminate them together...another solution is to cut "kerfs" in the plywood...
                  Why a Fiberglass Boat?...Because they are,"The more beautiful, more seaworthy, more elegant, more easier to get chicks in, nicer, more common, more socially accepted, more politically correct boats."Quote by oops!
                  Tight Lines and Float, Float On!
                  Notice: All links to previous photos have been kidnapped by Photobucket.
                  They no longer allow 3rd party hosting unless you fork over $400
                  If you need to see any photos from my thread, PM me

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

                    You just made my day with that. Glad to be able to avoid Epoxy. I've found a supplier of glass close to the work site that sell 430g biaxial with 45 degree/45 degree mats. It's slightly lighter than the stuff you use over there, but I'd figure it's close enough. 430g vs 500g over there. A 50kg (110 pounds)roll will cost me approx 340 euros (440 dollars). That ought to get me quite far I guess. Adding 300g (10 oz)CSM for 200 dollars gives me another 50kg of glass. Is a 100kg (220 pounds)of material overkill? I'm glassing the stringers, the deck both underneath and on top, the cabin on top and underneath. I'll just have to wait and see. To glass that much I'd need approx a 100kg of resin for a 50/50 ratio?

                    Edit:

                    More calculations: 3 layers of biax for the whole deck weighs approx 12kg. 1 layer underneath would be 4kg, the stringers max 8kg maybe. The cabin maybe another 12kg of biax. 50kg of biax ought to be fine it seems according to my wild estimations.
                    Finnish 30ft fishing boat overhaul

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                    • #11
                      Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

                      Sorry, not too good at metric to English measurement conversions, but the CSM we generally use here is just 1.5 ounce[approximately 45 grams], as opposed to 10 ounces...and we generally use it in 2 to 1 ratio to the bi-axial cloth...

                      The amounts you are talking about for the bi-axial cloth sounds about right for the size vessel you are working on...you may be surprised to find down the road that you might need even more, although it sounds like a really good starting point...

                      Let me see, 100 KG of resin is equivalent to about 220 pounds...each five gallon jug is approximately 40 pounds, so that's somewhere about 25-30 gallons here...yep, again, sounds about right...
                      Why a Fiberglass Boat?...Because they are,"The more beautiful, more seaworthy, more elegant, more easier to get chicks in, nicer, more common, more socially accepted, more politically correct boats."Quote by oops!
                      Tight Lines and Float, Float On!
                      Notice: All links to previous photos have been kidnapped by Photobucket.
                      They no longer allow 3rd party hosting unless you fork over $400
                      If you need to see any photos from my thread, PM me

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

                        Thanks for the help Gus! I really appreciate the info. I've been researching paint vs gel coat today. I know I'd like to go full gel coat and top coat on the whole boat. Just a little bit nervous about the thought of sanding 30 feet of hull, and then starting over with 15 feet of deck and cabin insides and outsides. It'll take me forever. I'll probably do it nonetheless.

                        What would be a good last layer to add on the biax and csm to get the smoothest possible base for the topcoat? I'll probably fair with PB or something similar, but still it would save time to get it even from the start? Light weave?
                        Finnish 30ft fishing boat overhaul

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

                          Okoume is widely used as the marine plywood staple, and esp in applications that benefit from it's mahogany-like look, and is a great choice (if affordable) for boat building. It is often available in non-standard lengths & widths, and is usually in metric measurements...

                          4X8, 5X8, 4X10, and 5X10 (in feet, I couldn't quickly find a metric listing for anything other then the 4X8: 1220mm X 2440mm)

                          In LOTS of thicknesses:
                          1.5mm
                          3mm
                          4mm
                          6mm
                          9mm
                          12mm
                          15mm
                          18mm
                          25mm

                          And typically comes w/ more layers (plys) in a given thickness then other plywoods.....

                          7ply in 3/4" ~ 18mm
                          11ply in 1" ~ 25mm

                          EDIT: Seems I missed RH's post about Okoume....
                          Money spent @ Boat Restoration should be measured in Smiles & Pride SHOP IBOATS-BOAT SPECS-FORUM HELP-REPAIR/RESTO

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

                            My best guess is you could use a layer of something like this...

                            From the US composites site...
                            [IMG]http://www.*****************/Images/veil.jpg[/IMG] Surfacing Veil
                            10MIL 38" width. Used to prevent print through on
                            mold surfaces or in parts. Held together
                            with binder which dissolves in polyesters resins.
                            Why a Fiberglass Boat?...Because they are,"The more beautiful, more seaworthy, more elegant, more easier to get chicks in, nicer, more common, more socially accepted, more politically correct boats."Quote by oops!
                            Tight Lines and Float, Float On!
                            Notice: All links to previous photos have been kidnapped by Photobucket.
                            They no longer allow 3rd party hosting unless you fork over $400
                            If you need to see any photos from my thread, PM me

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sign up today
                              Re: Finnish fishing boat overhaul

                              Hey..

                              Great to see that there are other Finns here as well. I have my restoration or rather a rebuild thad of old Vator 17 ht here somewhere. I went the epoxy way and happy that I did. That project has no due date no rush since I bought another boat for the family to use.

                              It's a nice project you got going on. I also love the Naviga styled boats. I' glad to help if I only can...
                              Storebro Royal Cruiser 34 Baltic - 1969. Twin Volvo TAMD40B shaft drives
                              http://storebro34rc.blogspot.fi/
                              Vator 17 HT -1975, Mercruiser 3.0l (181) 140hp - 1975 My reahaul thread:
                              https://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=414261

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