High Tide 1503 restore

Budman14

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Jul 20, 2016
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Been trolling around this site for awhile but this is my first post. Just thought I'd share this with y'all. I'm several hours in and plenty of sweating and itching. Got a loooong way to go. Feel free to share any tips, advice, criticisms as I continue my first boat project.
 

sphelps

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Gunna be a nice little fishing boat when finished ! Welcome aboard and let us know how we can help !
:welcome:
 

Budman14

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Jul 20, 2016
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Just got the transom out. Inside skin and one layer of ply came out in one piece.

Some work with a chisel and multi tool with scraper blade worked great to get the rest.
 

Budman14

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So I've got transom and all the stringers out. Time to start grinding. Trying to get a list together for materials.

I'm thinking about using 12 oz biax cloth and tape with epoxy for the whole job.

Does this sound like a solid plan?
 

Budman14

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This is how the seat used to look.

Was wondering whether I should build it onto the floor and glassing it all in together like it was, or just building a box and glueing it to the floor?

Also I found this in the garage and was wondering if I could use it under the stringers?
 

Budman14

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Hey guys I really need some solid advice on what materials to use. I've been posting on another forum as well and getting mixed feedback on whether to use epoxy or poly. I've never worked with either and just want to make the process as simple as possible. I've read many posts on this forum where guys have used PL, titebond, or thickened resin to glue the transom and stringers in, where on the other forum it's unheard of. I'm planning on keeping this boat for awhile but probably not forever. I want it to be solid, but it's definitely not gonna be a showboat.
Any input is greatly appreciated.
 

DeepBlue2010

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The Poly vs Epoxy is a very controversial argument. Always was, still is and will continue to be until a new technology eclipses both.

Long story short, Epoxy is superior, no one can argue that. The real question is, will you benefit from the superior characteristics of the Epoxy resin?! In an application like yours, the answer is most likely NO. Let me give you an example... what would be the ROI of rebuilding gradma's grocery getter with a 383 stroker with turbo charger?! Most likely nothing. Other than complaining about the darn car burning way more gas than it used to, she may not even notice what she got.

On the same token, epoxy has its applications that justify the extra $$. This fishing vessel is hardly one of them. If you don't care and $$ is not an issue, by all means.. go for it. If you are like the rest of us and do some cost benefit analysis on your financial decisions, save the $$ for a new chirp transducer and multi-function screen.

The tight bond and PL is to glue the different sheets of ply together to form the total thickness of the transom. For example, to glue 2 sheets of 3/4 ply and 1 sheet of 1/2 to form a total transom thickness of 2 inch. TiteBond III is better than PL for this specific purpose - in my opinion - simply because it water resistance but both will work. If the guys in the other forum don't use glue to glue wood together, I am not sure what they would use then.

To glue the new transom (wood shaped, cut to size & up to thickness) to the inner skin of the boat hull, people here use a mix of thickened resin to the consistency of peanut butter (that is why it is generally know and refereed to here on this forum as peanut butter.

I personally don't like to use this PB for this "gluing" application but I am going out on a limp here and I am sure people will disagree soon. I use PB to create fillets (rounding the corners of 90 degrees where wood intersects) for surfaces that will be glassed over since fiberglass doesn't like sharp corners. Even this application can be accomplished with special type of foam sheets or even plywood/hard wood trims cut at 45 angles or whatever angles needed to make the transition.

The problem with this mix is it is so brittle. Even if you through cut glass into it, it is still not the right ratio of mixing resin and glass. On the contrary, it is much much less. This thickened resin was originally introduced with Epoxy which by itself has an excellent gluing characteristics. Poly on the other hand doesn't have this feature. If there is one good application for epoxy in your rebuild project it would be to glue the transom wood to the inner skin of the hull. You still can use poly elsewhere even on the other side of the transom wood (the one you will see after you install it).

Again, this is just what I would do, you don't have to do that. The popular opinion here is that the PB mix has been used successfully for so many projects even though I don't really know how can we define successfully in this specific context if we never examined the bond between the two surfaces after being in use for a while or compared it to other bonding methods or any other scientific or even systematic approach to evaluate the bond.
 
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sphelps

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DB has all very good valid points ... My thought is that your boat was made from poly resin so there is no reason not to use poly for the repairs ...
Much cheaper than epoxy ... If you go with poly do not use the foam stuff under the stringers because it will melt it ...
 

Budman14

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Thanks for the reply deep blue. That brings up another point that was suggested to me that seems to make sense.

Using epoxy to glue in the transom and stringers, then using poly for the rest of the job.
Like you said, I'd love to be able to justify using epoxy for this rebuild, but not sure if I can.

So what I'm thinking about using is

Epoxy for gluing in the transom
Epoxy for bedding the stringers

Using poly for
1708 tape for transom and stringers
1708 cloth for transom
10 oz cloth for deck
8.7 oz tape for tabbing the deck

Am I on the right track ?
 

Woodonglass

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In my opinion there's no need for epoxy for your build. As DB stated it has it's place. Your's is not the place. No benefit that I can see. I've been on this forum for a few years and have read almost every thread posted and researched a TON. I've yet to hear of any Polyester repaired boat failing in any aspect. If you follow accepted and proven methods your boat will outlast you..

You might find this informative...Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms
 
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Budman14

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Thanks for the info guys. If I use poly, what type of foam can be used to keep the stringers off the hull? What was under them originally looked just like the poured foam that was in the rest of the boat
 

sphelps

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You don't want to bed in the stringers with epoxy then put poly over the epoxy .. Poly does not like to stick to epoxy .
 

Budman14

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Thanks sphelps I see that what I was thinking wouldn't work. So I suppose I should just use epoxy for gluing in the transom and use poly for the rest.
So is there a need for foam spacers under the stringers or would the PB be sufficient?
 

DeepBlue2010

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PB or PL construction adhesive will be enough for bedding the stringers. PL will take significantly longer to fully cure and stop gasing. Technically you don't need to bed the stringers at all. The bedding is not to glue them to the hull, it is to left them above the hull by about 1/4 inch to avoid hard spots. The bedding compound (PB OR PL) will help you guring the glassing though so you are not glassing over air buckets.

As it was mentioned, poly should not be used over epoxy, the other way around is ok. The reason it would work on the transom is that you are applying the two different resins to two different surfaces that will never interfere with each other.
 

Woodonglass

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You can use 1/4" pieces of scrap wood to hold the stringers up off the hull and then squeeze PB In the void and then form your fillets. I use a stringer rack to hold them in vertical position. Looks like this...
stringerBraces.jpg
make 2 or 3 of em and place them where needed/wanted.
 

Budman14

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Thanks WoG that's kinda what I had in mind. Something else that's troubling me is the pedestal mount on the floor. Any suggestions on how to duplicate this?

 

Budman14

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I'm wondering if I should just do without that seat base, as it had a notch cut into the center stringer for it. The more I think about it, that's probably just another way for water to potentially get under the sole again, thinking that was the main culprit of my problems anyway. I do like the pedestal there tho, anyone have ideas for an alternative?
 
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DeepBlue2010

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Do you need a seat in this place for your fishing needs? If not, forget it. Build without it. If you do, you don't have to use this specific base configuration which is designed for the seat pedestal to be removable. You can build the base on deck with plywood and fiberglass and with T-nuts and stainless steel (or thick aluminum) support plate from the bottom (under deck) to avoid notching the center stringer if you don't want to.

In any case, both can be done and water proofed. If the current base leaked, it was because of sloppy techniques by the factory. You can do a much better job.
 

Woodonglass

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Here's how one of our members did his. As DB describe 1 1/2" plywood base with T-Nuts then PB'd and Glassed to the deck.

seatpedestal.jpg
 

Budman14

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Jul 20, 2016
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Hey guys finished grinding for the most part but got a couple ideas about putting things back together. I'm thinking about building a bench seat vs putting a pedestal mount like it was before.
My question is would I need to add some support to the stringers?
And what'd be the best way to tab it into the side of the hull?
 
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