Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

[davelovejoy]

I tried to repair my zodiac by re-glueing the transom to the pontoons. However, the glue dried too fast and now the transom is not fully inserted in the slots that attach the pontoons. How do I take off the glue, so I can start over again? The glue is on very well, but not positioned correctly. HELP!

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

A heat gun will soften the glue. When you re-do it remember to roll the tube into the transom mounts rather than pushing them into place. Then run a cord around the whole thing to keep them in place. Don't touch it for 2 days.

 

[davelovejoy]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Thanks for the reply. So you think a heat gun would loosen it up enough to take off? The boat store said maybe acetone, but didn't sound sure. It's like halfway on the sleeves, but not in all the way. Here's a few pics to more describe my situation.

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Oh, That is not good! The suggestion for heat might work, but I'm not too confident that will work on a new glue job if it was done well and has cured. Since it doesn't look like you had removed or reglued the material to the tubes you could mechanically separate the material from the transom. I would try a safety razor in a holder and work along the edge, slicing the glue and trying to edge against the transom and favor the material. Pulling the last little bit apart rather than slicing near the tubes. Old glue that is failing, I pull on a small edge with pliers and see if it will come free without damaging the material layers. Might be worth testing your glue job... May I give you some advice? Never try to glue more than one layer or section at a time. I move the boat and do whatever it takes so that the section being glued is in proper position and easily lays or folds into place. To glue the material to the tubes behind my transom I suspended the boat as shown in the next pic. The weight of the boat and the angle made working with the material easy. The straps running back to the transom helped pull everything a little forward, just enough to place the transom properly.

A shot of the side in position and ready for the first glue layer.

To glue my transom properly I had to deal with the floor material puckering in the corner. The material was properly positioned on the transom and the floor seams were strong forward of the open seam area, so I stretched the boat using ratchet straps attached to a car and a truck. The first shot shows the section to be glued unstretched. I could never have gotten it to lay out right in this position. The next shot is of my stretch job on one side. Note the line that goes into the open bolt hole in the transom. The last pic shows the glued layers. Still a little puckering of the floor material, but there is a strong bond between the the floor material and tube.

It is all in the prep. Not just the surface cleaning, the positioning of your boat and managing your work order is key! Removing glue from a bad job is worse than any effort you can make to avoid it. Good luck. I'm off to go boating on SD bay and poach a concert at Humphrey's on the Bay tonight. Gotta love the inflatable life.

 

[davelovejoy]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Thanks so much for the advice, pictures and help. Sometimes I just get stuck in a problem and make irrational decisions. I also love my inflatable... I drop it from a hoist and take it to secluded surf spots called "the ranch". I also wake board around Santa Barbara and take people tubing. When I'm feeling really adventuresome, I pack up my gear in a shuttle craft and tow it to the channel islands. People say I'm crazy, but there's nothing like going to a secluded island, pulling up to shore and camping in the sand. Have fun at your concert nobrainsd, sounds awesome!

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

I assume you are launching from the hoist at Gaviota. Could you answer a few questions? Since there isn't a scheduled class to get a lift permit anymore, was it difficult to arrange the training/inspection with the Rangers? Secondly, I understand beach launching is allowed at Gaviota, but am I allowed to actually drive my vehicle on the beach when launching? I have the d rings and transom attachment points on the boat, a rated sling with american made shackles and all the required hoist equipment, but I already beach launch in Mex and it might be fun to give it a go right off the beach if the swell is reasonable. I know it gets pretty crowded on summer southswells. I'm looking to hit it for smaller swells this winter that slide in at the right angle and maybe do some fishing. Any comments you might make would be appreciated.
Here is a pic of my beach launch caster fat wheel that keeps my trailer tongue in good shape when towing out with a 30ft tow strap. I bolt it right under the front of the tongue when needed.

One other suggestion, if you are gluing a section and need to keep the material up and away from the other glued surface while letting the glue dry you can sew some thread through the edge of the material and tie it back. The thread then just slides out when you are ready to lay the glued material down into position. I tried toothpicks, bottle caps and other supports, but they just get in the way.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Whether it is a good glue job or not has no effect on heat being the only way to soften the glue. The only other way to soften the glue is with MEK which also chemically changes the PVC material. You do have to use MEK to prep the PVC to accept the glue.

 

[davelovejoy]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Since there isn't a scheduled class to get a lift permit anymore, was it difficult to arrange the training/inspection with the Rangers? Secondly, I understand beach launching is allowed at Gaviota, but am I allowed to actually drive my vehicle on the beach when launching?

Your absolutely right about the lift permits. It's been so long since I've gone that I didn't realize how much has changed. I got my zodiac in 2002 and went all the time, until my transom started coming apart from the pontoons. Its taken me about a year and a half to attempt to put the transom back on the pontoon and I ended up doing it wrong. I just found out the same thing when I went to the Gaviota camp site web page today. What a bummer. I have beach launched from their before, but I made custom wheels reinforced wheels to attach to the back of the transom and have a zodiac front wheel with pull bar. I think if you have a 4x4 you can drive on the sand. I have backed into where the sand starts and dropped my boat out of the trailer into the sand, using my beach wheel setup. We had 4 people and I remember it being a B@#CH! Definitely nothing I wanted to do again. But I also had a 600lb beast to pull. I don't know what to say about the Ranch, I have a 8 ft dingy with a 2HP motor that would easily beach launch 2 peeps. lol.

 

[davelovejoy]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Whether it is a good glue job or not has no effect on heat being the only way to soften the glue. The only other way to soften the glue is with MEK which also chemically changes the PVC material. You do have to use MEK to prep the PVC to accept the glue.

Can I use a blow dryer or do you think I need a heating gun? Should I try heating first or MEK or both? Would acetone help? Sorry for all the questions, I'm in a fix. Much appreciated.

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Heat, mek and acetone are all things that will loosen your glue, but they are also hard on the actual fabric coating. You will want to take care and protect the surrounding areas on your boat. When applying heat with a heat gun you should consider some sort of shield. On river rafts we have reactivated glue to get a better bond with a pot of hot water placed on top of a patch. If you have any patches or spare boat fabric you should test on it and try to get a feel for how far you can go with a heat gun without melting the fabric coating. Essentially the same practices extend to the solvents. MEK really softens the fabric coating a lot. Don't let it run off onto other areas of the boat. Acetone doesn't have quite the as aggressive action. I use acetone on a terry towels to vigourously rub and remove old glue remains after mechanical removal is complete. Acetone hasn't really helped me remove glue by itself. I would guess that a combination of heat, mek solvent worked on the seam and mechanical methods should get your seams separated. Just be careful to avoid making more work for yourself.

My boat had some really bad glue work where glue was layered on (obviously didn't work that way). Getting the thick glue layers off was a *****. I used Dremel abrasive wheels to take the glue off. Most of the glue would be spun off as small little particles, some would work forward as an edge of glue. Here is what the abrasive wheel looks like. More controllable than a sanding drum, but you will burn through them. After everything else I tried the expense seemed worthwhile!

This shot shows the work in progress.

Here is the cleaned surface, still needs a bit of a scrub with the acetone/terry towel.

Biggest trick I learned? When doing repairs it is really hard to get a full initial bond in tight corners or seam ends. The glue tends to not dry fully and waiting for it to dry requires reactivation of the rest of the ink layer. Even when doing that the MEK wipe will not flash off as fast in the little space and the glue there doesn't instantly bond as it should. If you apply pressure and have patience the solvent does outgas and the glue will cure. There are little folds and joints in a repair that need some mechanical assistance to stay positioned until cured. Here is a shot of my speed tube repair and the paint handle extension that I used. The front of the speed tube adhered immediately, but the back edge of the repair needed this pressure. Almost two years of abuse and it holds great.

I'm renovating an old Four Wheel camper and look forward to figuring out the permit deal at Gaviota in Sept. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Nice post nobrainsd!

 

[davelovejoy]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

I'm renovating an old Four Wheel camper and look forward to figuring out the permit deal at Gaviota in Sept. Thanks for the feedback!

Dude, you rock! Thanks for all the help! The pics and detailed explanations REALLY help.

Are you on the Gaviota Hoist newsletter list? That is the first step in getting a hoist permit. Otherwise every saturday the operator can drop your boat in after the boat has been inspected.

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

I am not on the newslist...yet! Gaviota has an operator on sat? I thought it was strictly permit self serve. I don't tend to go out in the U.S. on weekends...

Since I'm throwing everything at you I will dish out two other things I learned reassembling my boat. First off, I was a lousy judge of humidity until I bought a hygrometer for $12. Surprising how that measurement fluctuated over a day. Don't take the weathermans word on it!

Glue selection was a big thing for me. Had a hard time finding original Zodiac two part that wasn't of indeterminate age. Polymarine from West Marine worked really well, seemed to cure into a more flexible layer and didn't seem to require reactivation as a normal course of action. I didn't like the expensive bigger can. I didn't always mix the whole can, but I always use up an open can in one day. I really like Stabond two part. Seemed to dry a little harder, I tended to do an MEK wipe to reactivate (the glue seemd to catch a whitish glaze more easily while drying between coats), is less expensive and comes in smaller cans. Get fresh glue, thats why I bought from NRS. They track their stock. I don't use one part glues like Clifton. Sure sucks when a nicely prepped glue job fails later... it couldn't be my fault! http://nrsweb.resultspage.com/display.php?p=Q&ts=custom&w=stabond

 

[fastroller]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

I posted a question about Zodiac glue yesterday, and now reading this thread of postings today, I thought I'd pose my question anew:

I have a very small leak in the seam of one of the tubes of my zodiac. I bought a small 24ml tube of zodiac pvc glue (does not require a hardener) and must be applied when humidity is below 60%.

What do you think is the major advantage of the two-part glue? Is there any disadvantage using the one part Zodiac pvc glue that you know of?

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

One part glue is strictly for emergency repairs...It is guaranteed not to make a lasting repair.

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

The guru is absolutely correct, one part glue = emergency repair. Gluing isn't hard, it's getting a nice bond that lasts that is difficult! It's such a pain to properly prep a repair that it is worth the effort to do it right the first time. So I treat the whole procedure like the small religous ceremony it is, pray to the hygrometer, precisely measure and mix the glue (sacrificing one can each workday), waft MEK fumes skyward by anointing the virgin PVC carefully, timing every step in rigid absolute style and then marveling at the indescribable beauty of a well laid section of seam... One part glue is not part of a revelatory glue experience. These instructions are the gospel
http://www.allinflatables.com/support/pvc.html

 

[davelovejoy]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

I am not on the newslist...yet! Gaviota has an operator on sat? I thought it was strictly permit self serve. I don't tend to go out in the U.S. on weekends...

http://nrsweb.resultspage.com/display.php?p=Q&ts=custom&w=stabond

I found all the information on the gaviota website and by calling the phone number. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=606
There are about twelve .pdf doc's about the hoist. So there is plenty of homework and reading material to do. Gaviota has a special message just about the hoist operation. 805-968-1033

Thanks again for the glue information. I happen to have used the same glue that the local inflatable store recommended me. I just didn't have the right technique down. I like the idea of using one can a day. The glue never stores well after you open it and its hard to measure. Much easier to dump the two part together in one and go for it. Sometime though I feel rushed like the glue is drying too quick. Is this when you apply the MEK? That's what happened when I was trying to get the last glue job to hold the transom on. I also didn't have the boat side ways and did both pontoons in one go. Did you use one can of glue on the each pontoon? Or did you mount the transom base to the pontoon using one can, then mount the flaps of the pontoon to the transom using another can on another day? Sorry for so many questions, I just wanna do it right this time. .

If your ever in the SB area and wanna go to the ranch, I know the area well. If your boats light enough we can beach launch it no problem. My boat is just too heavy with a 50hp on the back.

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Well, I was fortunate (?) in that I had enough issues with my boat that I was almost always able to prep out a couple of spots to glue one time. With cans of stabond I felt confident carefully splitting the contents of the accelerator and the glue into two even batches. Did I ever hold the second half to mix the next day? Well, Yes. Not often. Made me nervous. But compare the expense of wasting a little glue to the hassle of getting a bad job off... I chose to spend a little more on glue overall. I definitely wasted a bit of glue! My time prepping, the cost of the abrasive wheels and the aggravation removing dried glue made the decision easy for me. The worst part was waiting for a full cure between subsequent layers (yes, I waited for the full cure on every layer). To do the transom I worked in stages, flopping the boat, doing sections and layers individually and waiting 72 hours before overlapping anything. At times with the boat lying down I could do sections on both sides. In the end it all depends on how the job lays out and what you need to do to make everything line up. You may not need to suspend the boat. Do whatever is necessary. Never ever pull a just glued bond apart unless you are going to clean it off totally and reglue. This is a one shot deal! Probably ridiculous overkill on my part? This is how professionals do it. If you read my post above where I describe repairs like a religous ceremony, well, thats absolutely the way I treated the deal. Taking on water through my transom 4 miles off the coast in remote baja... never again.

Since I was all set up and only working on manageable sections I usually had to wait on the glue rather than being rushed. You really only need to reactivate if the glue layer shows signs of some moisture pick up, the whitish layer or spots that can develop. I tended to hit my glued surfaces with a light mek wipe, give it a moment to flash off and then join. This makes the initial bond a little less strong (IMO) and won't help if everything isn't lined up and under no stresses or pulls. If it's an awkward job you should shoot for no mek wipe. I assume you checked the glue instructions link I posted? They really are the gospel.

Thanks for the Gaviota update. I checked out the new PDF on the website. Nice to see they have added some info regarding the current class scheduling. I'm swamped with work right now, so no Ranch life until Sept at least. My boat is not light (40hp), but I've got the 30 ft tow strap for retrieval off the beach, I always let air out of my tires, I've got an inverter and pump to refill the tires and my truck is 4 wheel drive. Might work until I get a proximity card? I might need an partner in crime! Be sure to post some pics of your work.

 

[davelovejoy]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Hey, I thought you would be interested in this nobrainsd. If you send an email asap you can get an inspection. I'm going to wait until I fix my boat and I'll definitely post some pics. Oh ya, my seat idea doesn't work. Cheap plastic seats broke first time out.. Totally lame. How are your seats working?

Next vessel inspection date, Friday, August 22, 2008. Please review Press Release and following the instructions outlined when requesting a reservation. Vessel inspections are limited to the first 20 applicants.

Thank you,
California State Parks
Gaviota State Park Homepage

CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION
News Release

Date: August 5, 2008

Contact:
Contact:



Al Fimlaid
Wes Chapin

For Immediate Release

(805) 968-3834
(805) 585-1845


Next Vessel Inspection Date for Gaviota Boat Hoist Announced

Goleta ? California State Parks officials announced today that the next Vessel Inspection Certification for boaters who want to launch their boats at Gaviota State Park will be held on Friday, August 22, 2008. Vessel inspections are limited to the first 20 applicants.
Requests for a reservation should be sent by email to the Hoist Distribution List at gaviotahoist@parks.ca.gov. A reservation is not guaranteed. Applicants will receive an email confirming their attendance or informing them that the 20-applicant limit has been reached. Sign-up requests must include applicants? first and last name as well as their phone number with area code. Each person wanting to sign up must apply with his/her own email address.
Location/time of the vessel inspection and other information will be provided when attendance is confirmed.
Vessel owners who pass the vessel inspection and who have completed Hoist Operator Training will receive a Hoist Proximity Card, which activates the hoist.
Additional information about the hoist program is contained in two free publications. Applicants should be familiar with both. The Hoist Program Information Handbook provides general information about the hoist program, including how to obtain the Hoist Operator I.D. Card and Hoist Proximity Card. The Hoist Operator Training Handbook gives step-by-step instructions on how to operate the hoist. Both are available on the Gaviota State Park web page, which is accessed through the California State Parks website at www.parks.ca.gov.

The Hoist Distribution List, gaviotahoist@parks.ca.gov, is the primary method California State Parks uses to communicate with boaters interested in the boat hoist at Gaviota State Park. Boaters who do not have access to email can mail their sign-up request to Gaviota Hoist Program, #10 Refugio Beach Road, Goleta, CA 93117.
The department also maintains a recorded information line with current status of the boat hoist and other park information at (805) 968-1033.

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Zodiac - detached pontoons from transom

Dang, I really would like to do the August inspection, but my schedule isn't going to accomodate that. Hope to be free in Sept. Thanks for the heads up. Just got done sewing new inserts for my pop top camper, maybe I need to make a spray dodger for colder weather runs up the coast. Sounds like a good project. Yeah, Everyone hits those south swells, but there are slots through the islands for fall surf to slide through!

The tractor suspension seats have worked really well! They were a bit heavy, about 30 lbs each. Weighed less after I removed the adustable sliding base and made aluminum mounting brackets.

They are a super PLUSH ride for sure. I got caught over the shelf off Point Loma where the swells shift around a lot, totally launched off a breaking wave with an extreme sideways angle and had one of the seats come untracked when I landed. Bent the roller tab. Wasn't hard to fix and I haven't had anything like that happen since. I try to take the harder jumps more head on with a little less speed now... I didn't have much choice with another wave swinging even wider right behind the one I jumped. It really was a bad place to be and I had to make tracks or get rolled, too much kelp to turn and run inside instead of taking the launch. Surfed some 2-3' waves that were inconsistently breaking off the point yesterday in my zodiac, way too much fun! The CG really doesn't approve. The tractor seats have taken a lot of abuse, only the one severe sideways slam has ever created an issue. Scratches on the back frame will rust, so I keep on it with paint. My buddies refuse to hit it offshore without the 6" of suspension, even when we fish. Since the seats sit higher I was able to fit them on the bench even though they are wide. Nice roomy seating next to my fatboy friends. I was surprised no one picked up on the seating aspect of the mod thread. These things are awesome, check e-bay. The bench rocks a bit in the floor track, but hasn't caused any issues there. It bugged me so I squirted some hot glue under the support bracket in the track. Makes a nice washer/cushion.

I have another bench with two regular boat seats bolted down. I unstapled the seat vinyl and installed bolts downward through the bench. The original owner had bolts sticking up into the seat cushion... that was not good. Nice and light set up for wakeboarding. When wakeboarding I pull the ten gallon gas tank too. One fat driver, one fat spotter and one big guy being towed... I do my best to lighten the unnecessary load. Most of the regular boat seats available are a little wide and two of them together wouldn't fit between the tubes installed directly on the bench, be sure to measure before buying.

Nice to be able to swap out seating so easily with the track system eh? Good luck with the repair and be sure to post some pics of your work as it progresses.