Yates Verdict

ob

Admiral
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Aug 16, 2002
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6,992
Re: Yates Verdict

She killed her kids because her husband was so overbearing and controlling that she tried to please out of fear?Too bad.She made a weak and selfish choice.I personally don't buy in to the husband was the cause logic.Logical people are not telepathically made to do anything they don't choose to do themselves.Particularly what she did.So, is she insane or sane?I personally don't know and care even less.She's not diagnosed mentally retarded,so that's at least a step in the sane direction.What I am concerned with is whether she will ever be in a position to kill again.<br /><br />I am also dis-interested in any book she writes about her plight.Maybe she needs an exorcism.
 

Mr.Ladyfish

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Nov 28, 2003
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848
Re: Yates Verdict

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing but bad feelings for anyone who harms a child. All I'm saying is that any mother who could drown her child (let alone 5 children) is insane IMHO without a doubt. I think she should be kept locked up for the rest of her life. I just don't see that taking the life of someone who is mentally ill is justified. Yates believed that she was a bad mother and would keep her children from heaven if she did not kill them while they were innocent. That's about as mentally ill as you can get in my book.<br /><br />Michael Jackson, the priests, Susan Smith and others who kill or harm kids for their own pleasure, monetary gain or just to free up their own lives are a whole different story. A slow painful death that lasts for a few days is my recommendation for those people.<br /><br />Mr. Yates deserves a long, hard look. He got her pregnant a 4th and 5th time AFTER she already had post partum problems. He controlled her life. I think he bears a lot of responsibility for what happened. <br /><br />There are no winners in a case like this. Society, the Yates, the friends and family all suffer from this tragedy.<br /><br />From what I've read I don't think anyone will have to worry about her writting any books. She's been on and off suicide watch since the trial. Her husband is the one who will likely try to sell the story. That's when he should be shot.
 

LadyFish

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Mar 18, 2003
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Re: Yates Verdict

SBN, I am livid and physically sickened about her actions, but she is mentally insane and suffered from severe depression for quite some time before the murders. <br /><br />It dosen't make the methodical murder of 5 innocent children right, absolutely NOTHING will ever make that right.<br /><br />So I guess the question is, can we hold insane people responsible for their actions? The answer according to the courts is no. Can we put them to death for their actions? The courts says no.<br /><br />Dosen't make me swallow it any easier but that is the law.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Aug 25, 2002
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17,651
Re: Yates Verdict

Just going to say this and then I'm done with this one.<br />Nobody was making her stay where she was.<br /><br />Don't want to hear all that stuff about how afraid she was, way too many ways to get away if she wanted to.<br /><br />Happy New Year.
 

lakelivin

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
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1,172
Re: Yates Verdict

http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/andreayates.htm <br />I edited (cut out part of) the article because it was so long; see above for full text. <br /><br />Profile of Andrea Yates<br /><br />Andrea Meets Rusty Yates: Andrea and Rusty Yates, both 25, met at their apartment complex in Houston. Andrea had never dated anyone until she turned 23 and prior to meeting Rusty she was healing from a broken relationship. They eventually moved in together and spent much of their time involved in religious study and prayer. They were married on April 17, 1993. They shared with their guests that they planned on having as many children as nature provided. : In their eight years of marriage, the Yates had five children; four boys and one girl. Andrea stopped jogging and swimming when she became pregnant with her second child. Friends say that she became reclusive. The decision to home-school the children seemed to feed her isolation.<br /><br />Their Living Conditions: Rusty accepted work in Florida in 1996 and the family moved into a 38-foot travel trailer in Seminole, FL While in Florida, Andrea got pregnant, but miscarried. In 1997 they returned to Houston and lived in their trailer because Rusty wanted to "live light." The next year. Rusty decided to purchase a 350-square-foot, renovated bus which became their permanent home. Luke was born bringing the number of children to four. Living conditions were cramped and Andrea's insanity began to surface.<br /><br />Michael Woroniecki: Michael Woroniecki was a traveling minister from whom Rusty purchased their bus and whose religious views had influenced both Rusty and Andrea. Rusty only agreed with some of Woroniecki's ideas but Andrea embraced the extremist sermons. He preached, "the role of women is derived from the sin of Eve and that bad mothers who are going to hell create bad children who will go to hell." Andrea was so totally captivated by Woroniecki that Rusty and Andrea's family grew concerned. <br /><br />Andrea’s First Suicide Attempt : On June 16 1999, Andrea called Rusty and begged him to come home. He found her shaking involuntarily and chewing on her fingers. The next day, she was hospitalized after she tried to commit suicide by taking an overdose of pills. She was transferred to the Methodist Hospital psychiatric unit and diagnosed with a major depressive disorder. The medical staff described Andrea as evasive in discussing her problems. However, on June 24 she was prescribed an antidepressant and released. <br /><br />Spiraling Downward: Once home, Andrea did not take the medication and as a result she began to self mutilate and refused to feed her children because she felt they were eating too much. She thought there were video cameras in the ceilings and said that the characters on television were talking to her and the children. She told Rusty about the hallucinations, yet neither of them informed Andrea's psychiatrist, Dr. Starbranch. On July 20, Andrea put a knife to her neck and begged her husband to let her die. <br /><br />Warned About the Risks of Having More Babies : Andrea was again hospitalized and stayed in a catatonic state for 10 days. After being treated with an injection of different drugs that included Haldol, an anti-psychotic drug, her condition immediately improved. Rusty was optimistic about the drug therapy because Andrea appeared more like the person he first met. Dr. Starbranch warned the Yates that having another baby might bring on more episodes of psychotic behavior. Andrea was placed on out-patient care and prescribed Haldol. <br /><br />New Hopes for the Future : Andrea's family urged Rusty to buy a home instead of returning Andrea to the cramped space of the bus. He purchased a nice home in a peaceful neighborhood. Once in her new home, Andrea's condition improved to the point that she returned to past activities like swimming, cooking and some socializing. She was also interacting well with her children. She expressed to Rusty that she had strong hopes for the future but still viewed her life on the bus as her failure. <br /><br />The Tragic End: In March of 2000, Andrea, on Rusty's urging, became pregnant and stopped taking the Haldol. On November 30, 2000, Mary was born. Andrea was coping but on March 12, her father died and immediately her mental state digressed. She stopped talking, refused liquids, mutilated herself, and would not feed Mary. She also frantically read the Bible. <br /><br />By the end of March Andrea returned to a different hospital. Her psychiatrist, Dr. Mohammed Saeed, treated her briefly with Haldol but discontinued it, saying that she did not did not seem psychotic. Andrea was released only to return again in May. She was released in 10 days and in her last follow-up visit with Saeed, she was told to think positive thoughts and to see a psychologist. <br /><br />Two days later, Rusty left for work and before his mother arrived to help, Andrea began to put into action the thoughts that had consumed her for two years. Andrea filled the tub with water and beginning with Paul, she systematically drowned the three youngest boys, then placed them on her bed and covered them. Mary was left floating in the tub. The last child alive was the first born, seven-year-old Noah. He asked his mother what was wrong with Mary, then turned and ran away. Andrea caught up with him and as he screamed, she dragged him and forced him into the tub next to Mary's floating body. He fought desperately, coming up for air twice, but Andrea held him down until he was dead. Leaving Noah in the tub, she brought Mary to the bed and laid her in the arms of her brothers.<br /><br />During Andrea's confession she explained her actions by saying that she wasn't a good mother and that the children were "not developing correctly" and she needed to be punished. <br /><br /><br />____________________________________________<br /><br />For an even more detailed history of the Yates affair see the following:<br /><br /> http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/ <br /><br />________________________________________<br /><br />I don't believe this case and the Susan Smith case should even be mentioned in the same sentance. After reading details about her history, it's clear that Yates had a history of severe mental illness. She killed her kids so that 'they could go to heaven before she corrupted them and condemned them to hell' (my paraphrase). <br /><br />Susan Smith murdered her kids because her boyfriend didn't envision a serious relationship with her because of the kids. Outside of OBL, I can't think of anyone else more deserving of execution than Susan Smith (I'd even put her ahead of the Washington D.C. snipers).
 

ob

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Aug 16, 2002
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Re: Yates Verdict

Nice post LakeLivin.Informative and just plain pittiful.
 

ebbtide176

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Jan 22, 2002
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Re: Yates Verdict

i'm sorry, i'd have to go with SBN's thoughts on these kinds of things. i will go further with this:<br /><br />i still think anyone who kills is a prime candidate for the death penalty. <br /><br />i do feel there are absolutely some exceptions, such as under order of law- law officers, soldiers, and others trained to kill by our government. <br />otherwise, if my crazy aunt isn't sane enough to understand that killing is permanent, then they aren't responsible enough to be honored with life on earth. thankfully, i believe the laws we make are binding, and i'd put in my 2c to make it a binding law.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Yates Verdict

Originally posted by ebb:<br />if my crazy aunt isn't sane enough to understand that killing is permanent, then they aren't responsible enough to be honored with life on earth.
Well stated, ebb!
 

lakelivin

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Aug 19, 2004
Messages
1,172
Re: Yates Verdict

ob: you're right, this was horribly, pitifully, tragic.<br /><br />Boom, ebb, & SBN: I asked the question above "...do you deep down believe that insanity should not be an option for a verdict when a murder clearly has been committed?"<br /><br />Sounds like your answer is that you believe it should not. To me that raises the question of the difference between vengence and justice. <br /><br />I think we all agree that the general community must be protected from those with dangerous genuine mental illness as well as from criminals.<br /><br />I also believe that there are different ways to handle the two situations, as the law states. Although the law agrees with my sentiment, the bottom line in this case is that it may actually be more humane for Yates to be executed. <br /><br />I don't believe Yates was an inherently evil person or a criminal. I believe she was a person with a severe mental illness who committed an evil, criminal act. <br /><br />Can you imagine the torment she will have to live with if she gets better and is able to comprehend what she did to her kids? My guess is that if found innocent by reason of insanity she will either spend the rest of her life in an institution, or if she ever does get well enough to get out she'll end up committing suicide.
 
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