Yamaha S250TXRX bogging/stumbling at mid-range

SBH2OMan

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1999 Yamaha 250 (OX66)

Per my previous thread at http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=450905, I replaced many of the fuel system components, but was still having issues with idle speed and WOT performance. Didn't have time to order/receive diagnostic equipment (out of stock/hard to find, etc), so I took it to my local marine mech who has all the test harnesses and Yamaha software (they used to be the local Yamaha dealer, but discontinued a couple of years ago).

They immediately found that the oil linkage rod has been incorrectly installed by the previous owner or mechanic, causing it to sit at the oiling position for 1/3 throttle at idle (that is the way he described it to me). Once that was done, they set the TPS voltage and also found that the throttle linkage had been manually adjusted way out of spec (probably to compensate for rough idle from over-oiling) The also put in a set of fresh plugs, recommending one heat range higher. Also ran a compression test and "checked the reed valves" and gave her a clean bill of health with the usual disclaimer about a sea trial before considering the problem(s) cured.

At sea, she purred at idle, shifted smoothly and seemed to smoke a lot less than before, however when trying to get up on plane she stumbled BADLY, sputtering and sounding starved for fuel until up to WOT. Then she leaped up on to plane and ran fine. I backed off the throttle and she again stumbled and sputtered badly. I had someone pump the fuel bulb while I was accelerating and this did not seem to make a difference. (All fuel filters are new)

On the water, I adjusted the TPS sensor clockwise and the mid-range performance improved noticeably with no harm to the WOT performance, but was still stumbling between 1500 and 2500. I went back, loosened the TPS again and rotated it ALL the way clockwise. Things improved more, but still running rough:

  • Idle: high 600's low 700's
  • Started easily (first bump) while warm through probably 10 stop/start cycles.
  • Acceleration feels very flat (lacking power) until hitting about 4000 rpms. Trouble getting up on plane unless WOT then backing off.
  • Sputtering occurs right around 2000 rpms whether going up on the throttle or coming down.
  • Fuel burn seemed higher than normal, but probably because so much time spent going to WOT and back

The O2 sensor was NOT checked by mechanic, I later learned. It is back in the shop today to run the factory test from the 2003 service bulletin (I printed off a copy and gave to mechanic)

Thanks in advance for your help or advice.

-Brent
 
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SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX bogging/stumbling at mid-range

Oh, I should mention I only adjusted the TPS sensor while on the water as an experiment, so see if that was related to the problem, and it appears to be, indicating that the FI system is receiving the wrong inputs from somewhere else (e.g. O2 sensor), since the TPS sensor voltage was to spec when we hit the water (it is no longer in spec since I monkeyed with it).
 

cousinabe

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX bogging/stumbling at mid-range

did you test your tps? are there any dead spots in it?
sounds like you're on the right track though.
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX bogging/stumbling at mid-range

I don't have a test harness, so I didn't test it, but I know that the mechanic previously set the TPS to the proper setting using the voltage spec in section 8-21 of the manual (0.48v closed and 5.25v open, right?)
 

cousinabe

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX bogging/stumbling at mid-range

the setting closed voltage is correct @.48v; however, you should measure the voltage while slowly opening and closing the throttle valves. check if the voltage changes gradually.
if there are rapid v changes, replace.
do not worry if the voltage does not get up to 5v at WOT.
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX bogging/stumbling at mid-range

Update to this thread...

Voltages on the O2 sensor were apparently in spec, but the mechanic pulled the sensor out and found that something had fallen into the dip tube and was blocking the flow to the sensor (I didn't completely understand his explanation). According to him, he cleaned the dip tube and sensor and reinstalled everything.

Now the stumbling problem is pretty much gone (there is still a small amount of roughness when backing down from 4600 to around 2000 and trying to run at that rpm) and fuel consumption is the best I've seen it so far - around 12 to 13 gph at 4600 to 4800 rpm depending on sea state.

The idle is back to being too high (around 1,000 rpm); I'm wondering now whether that will just be a simple mechanical adjustment of the throttle linkage.
 

99yam40

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX bogging/stumbling at mid-range

I would be careful if it is getting better fuel mileage than ever, then it is a good chance you are running too lean and will hurt the motor.
You May need to do some searching and reading,but seems I have read something about not running over 4000 if a sensor fails and the ECU locks into a certain mode, as it will be running too lean.

And I believe it said something about the high idle also
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX bogging/stumbling at mid-range

Thanks for that. I should have pointed out that I just acquired this boat and it hasn't run properly since I got it. It is now running properly and one of the indications is that the fuel consumption is more in line with what I was expecting. All the sensors and fuel system components are either new or are within spec now, and no trouble codes are being generated. The idle needs some adjustment, but other than that, I think she is finally dialed in. (yippee -on to the next project!) :)
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX bogging/stumbling at mid-range

Yes, I saw that post from Rodbolt, but the manual lays out a specific process for adjusting the idle in section 3-6

My read on this is that IF everything else is functioning properly (no fault codes, TPS sensor set correctly, all sensors giving off the proper readings, etc) that the *FINAL* adjustment of idle is set according to the manual by:

Yamaha Service Manual said:
1) Loosen the pickup adjustment screw (1)
2) Align the center of the throttle control lever cam roller (2) with the mark (a)
3) Turn the throttle stop screw (3) in direction (b) or (c) until the specified engine idling speed is obtained.

This is a word-for-word quote from the Yamaha Factory Service Manual. I know Rodbolt is an expert, so either I'm misunderstanding something, the manual is wrong, or there's a communication disconnect somewhere between all of us... :D

Why would there be a specific adjustment procedure in the manual if "on the idle speed, ITS NOT ADJUSTABLE." :confused::confused:
 

99yam40

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX bogging/stumbling at mid-range

I believe he agreed with that, but all other adjustments need to be made first and then that one , and once done it should not have to be done again unless something is broke and is replaced and all are readjusted again
 
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