Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

SBH2OMan

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This is a new boat to me, and I've been going through all the fuel system components (low pressure side) and resolved a previous problem with rough running and cut-out at WOT by replacing all the LP fuel pumps, cleaning and replacing the VST tank and filter, replacing all the fuel filters, etc. I also had my mechanic check for trouble codes being generated while in a test tank (none) and use Yamaha test harnesses to adjust TPS and to test O2 sensor after cleaning it and the dip tube. He also put in a new set of NGK plugs, recommending one heat range higher. He also found that the oil control rod linkage clip had been broken and then re-inserted in a "jerry rig" fashion causing it to "oil at double what it should" at idle. It was repaired with a new clip and re-adjusted. This cleared up a very smoky and rough idle problem as well.

The motor idles too high - around 900 to 1,100 even when warm, but according to mechanic, sensors are all within spec, TPS voltage/setting is correct. Taking his word for it, I should just be able to adjust the idle per the manual section 3-6.


All seemed to be running well, and we took her on her first "big" trip - a 90 mile round trip to our local islands and back. The ride out was rough, but we managed about 15 to 20 knots most of the way, turning about 4200 to 4600 rpms, IIRC and burning about 12 gph to 15 gph.

On the way home we made very good speed - about 22 to 26 kts turning about 4600 to 4900 rpms and burning about 13 gph to 18 gph.

My partner was driving and I was relaxing with a beer when I heard the engine alarm go off. I jumped up, looked at the gauge and saw both triangles blinking over the red "window" and yellow "oil can" icons. "SHUT IT OFF!" I yelled, knowing that this meant the main oil tank was empty and the reserve tank was low! Sure enough, even though it was absolutely full when we started, the remote tank was EMPTY (I admonished my partner about watching the gauges while underway!). We had burned about 50 gallons at this point according to the flo scan, which would mean about 25:1 gas to oil ratio (even more since the remote tank was 1/2 empty).

Luckily we had a couple of quarts on board to top it up so we made it back home the remaining 10 miles or so.

The next day, I popped the cover to check and see if the oil control rod had come loose or there was a problem with the clip. I didn't see anything obvious.

Based on my research here on the forum, I'm planning to run through the following test protocol to see what is going on - can you tell me if I am on the right track?

1. Pull the plugs and see if #5 & #6 are excessively fouled, indicating a leaky oil pump shaft seal (I assume #5 & #6 are the bottom-most cylinders?)

2. Drain engine oil tank, check water trap. Strain oil in painter's filter & look for suspended "goo", gel, or emulsion that could be fouling the oil pump (if found, remove, clean & reinstall both engine and remote oil tank).

3. Check tach/alarm operation and transfer rate by turning on key and timing out 180 seconds to make sure I get: audible alarm, 3 blinking triangles, remote tank just above 1/2 full.

4. Check oil control linkage and ensure proper gap (.005-.04.) and make sure it is not bent (either of these would indicate a failure on the part of my mechanic, since I was billed for them to conduct this step)

5. Adjust idle

6. (???) Should I hit the engine with some Seafoam "deep creep" and let it sit over-night, then run it on muffs to clear out carbon deposits? I do not know the status of the engine, as I only have about 10-20 hours of run time on it since buying the boat.

Am I missing anything here? Part of my problem is that I have concerns about the mechanic's competence, but they have the test equipment and I do not, so I am taking their word for the sensors all being in spec

Thanks in advance - at $30 a gallon for Yamalube, it gets REAL expensive at 20:1 ratios, not to mention the fouling of the plugs and OX sensor.
 

199675hpforce

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

sucks look around with flashlight maybe a hose is discoed. I personal would rather premix at 50to1 in the gas tank than have the chance of running out oil in tank. First I would talk to rodbolt maybe that fancy motor needs the oil for expensive pump system.
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

Thanks, I'll do that today while the sun is bright. No good way to disable the injection system like on a Johnson/evinrude VRO. I'd really rather get it set up the way the mfg intended. It's just maddening that I can't find a competent and trustworthy mechanic!
 
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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

The oil injection system is really reliable unless messed with by someone that does not understand it, which end is it disconnecting from, the oil pump or the throttle cam? On the oil pump their is a small cotter pin that I have seen in the cowl on some of yamaha's engine. On the throttle cam their is a bushing that I have seen on older motors that can become worn. Depending on what is wrong I would start there. Once you think you have fixed it I would disconnect the throttle cam on the starboard side of the engine (the one with ball sockets) try not to unscrew the socket, and move the throttle cam and let the throttle plates snap shut if the oil pump rod stays connected chances are problems is fixed. As far as the high idle, the TPS position is important but the final TPS setting is critical, if the idle adjustment screw is not backed off fully while setting initial TPS setting, final idle will not right.
 
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SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

... which end is it disconnecting from, the oil pump or the throttle cam?
It is not disconnecting, as far as I can tell. Looking at the pictures, you can see both retaining clips appear to be secure. The bushing you are talking about - is that on the other end of the black arm from the oil control rod (shown in the last picture below)?

Once you think you have fixed it I would disconnect the throttle cam on the starboard side of the engine (the one with ball sockets) try not to unscrew the socket, and move the throttle cam and let the throttle plates snap shut.
I'm not sure I follow you - do you mean let them snap shut while I adjust the idle? Or while I adjust the TPS? Thanks!

IMG_1459.jpg


IMG_1456.jpg
 
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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

Disreguard, I thought you were saying the oil link rod was coming loose. The reason I say this is because if the link rod breaks the spring on the oil pump will retract the oil pump arm and revert the pump to a constant 50:1 mixture. What size is your remote tank, if I remember their are a couple of different sizes. I have never heard of an oil pump over oiling since it is governed by RPM and throttle position. Looks like your injection system is the one that is injected into the VST. I wouldn't think that your high idle would contribute to this but the flow sensors are not as accurate as the computerized ones used today being that a paddle wheel is slightly mechanical. But I would not think you are running at an increased oiling rate. You maybe can verify this by maybe running a portable tank maybe 3-5 gallons with the main oil tank full and disconnect oil injection float or at the main tank wiring harness. That would give you a better idea of oil comsumption. But as far as your idle (sounds like you have a manual) make sure you sync throttle plates before adjusting the TPS.
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

Thanks! Actually, the high idle is a completely separate problem that I'm dealing with, and I suspect a symptom that other things are not working properly (I suspect either the O2 sensor or the TPS adjustment).

The remote tank is an 11.2 QT (2 gallon) according to the owner's manual, and it does seem to take about 2 gallons total. I know for sure that I topped it up almost completely full, and the engine-mounted tank was also full before we set out for the day. 50 gallons of gas later, I've burned up ALL the oil in the remote tank and 1/2 the oil in the engine-mount tank = about 2 gallons, therefore oiling about 20 or 25 to 1.

I'm on my way out to the boat now to check the plugs for fouling patterns (to see if #5 & #6 are wet with oil) and to drain the oil from the water trap in the engine-mount tank to check for any goo or emulsion in there. I will also check the clearance of the oil rod.
 
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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

O2 sensor is not the problem, that just makes adjustments at higher rpm range. TPS maybe suspect probably should check. How about fuel pressure? And does the fuel pressure raise when reference hose is removed from pressure regulator on the VST? Is the gauge on your dash set to gallons?
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

Update to this issue:

1. Pull the plugs and see if #5 & #6 are excessively fouled, indicating a leaky oil pump shaft seal (I assume #5 & #6 are the bottom-most cylinders?)

Plugs have maybe 10 hours on them. They were clean but oily. Don't know what "normal" should look like but they did not seem fouled at all. Bottom two plugs were perhaps a bit more oily than thebother four but not dramTically so.

2. Drain engine oil tank, check water trap. Strain oil in painter's filter & look for suspended "goo", gel, or emulsion that could be fouling the oil pump (if found, remove, clean & reinstall both engine and remote oil tank).
Engine tank was clean, clean, clean and oil drained out didn't have any discernible foreign material at all. Water trap was clean except for maybe 1cc or less of what looked like dirty water. Much less than 1/4 teaspoon.

3. Check tach/alarm operation and transfer rate by turning on key and timing out 180 seconds to make sure I get: audible alarm, 3 blinking triangles, remote tank just above 1/2 full.

Worked exactly as it should. Alarm cut off at 2:25 and transfer pump stopped at 3:00. Tank was just above 1/2 full. Emergency switch operated transfer pump after it shut off as well.

4. Check oil control linkage and ensure proper gap (.005-.04.) and make sure it is not bent (either of these would indicate a failure on the part of my mechanic, since I was billed for them to conduct this step)

Control linkage has what appears to be normal bend (see pix) and operating properly. I disconnected the throttle cable from the lever on the starboard side and flipped it open and closed a few times. Then I checked clearance at control rod to stop. It was like 1/8"! I unclipped the top clip and rotated the rod 5 complete revolutions before the gap closed completely. Then just to double check, I backed it off again and the gap stayed closed. :-( I went back and forth with the adjustment until I got it to where it was one full revolution tighter than it was before I started, which doesn't seem like enough to be causing the oiling problems.

I did notice that there is a fair amount of play in the black lever to which the upper end of the control rod mounts. It is pretty sloppy on it's shaft, which allows the oiling linkage to deflect back and forth while the throttle is held closed. This play is enough to cause about 1/16" to 1/8" of gap where it should be .005" against the stop if I hold the throttle closed with one hand and push the oil rod with the other.

Could this slop be causing my oiling problem? If I'm not mistaken, my mechanic replaced this black lever (in picture #4 above) so the shaft might be worn(?) which appears to be the shaft for the throttle butterfly as well..

Where should I go next?

I'm going to sea trial it tomorrow to see how the oil consumption is.
 
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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

Give me your email address and I will give you some more information to test oil pump output procedures if you think you are still having issues.
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

OK, I made some progress! After hitting the engine hard with Deep Creep and letting it sit over night, (along with the other procedures I mentioned) I took it out today for a trial run. It ran GREAT! The idle was purring at 650 to 750 after warmed up, and the running was smoother than it has been in a while, and the fuel consumption was slightly better (12 gph at 4700 versus about 14 gph previously).

My theory is that the Deep Creep treatment cleaned out the deposits on the O2 sensor caused by the over-oiling.

I only went through 15 gallons of gas today, and it *looks* like I used about 1/3 of the amount of oil in the tank, so it would seem that the oil consumption is still excessive.

At this point I'd have to attribute it to either the slop in the oil control linkage or leakage of the oil pump shaft seal...

But at least I've isolated and determined the cause of the high idle (engine/sensor fouling). Progress!
 

99yam40

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

I could be wrong but on the test I thought the oil transfer pump should fill the oil tank on the motor before the 180 second time out, if not then there was a restriction like in line oil filter plugging.

I do not think there should be that much slack in the linkage.

Seems I have read about running motor on a premix and testing the oil output by measuring the amount of flow in CCs. Maybe spec is in the Yamaha manual.
Just make sure the premix is completely through the system before disconnecting the oil line to measure
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

Thanks. Image is too small to read, but it looks like an excerpt from the manual, section 3-12? I also have a copy of the "Tech Tips - Oil Transfer System Function" for "All 2-stroke models" which mentions the procedure and then refers to the manual. Now I just need to borrow a tank of pre-mix from someone and create a shunt for the fuel intake.
 
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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

You don't need to use premix if you just take one of the lines off the oil bar nipple but if you take the main oil line to the VST you will be testing all of the oil lines output. If you take one of the lines off the oil bar and cap it you should be able to use that test procedure.
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

I'm confused... How can i get an accurate reading of the oil output when the correct amount is being put into the VST tank and into the engine?

00000365.png
 
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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

Ok just verified, your service manual tests all six lines, if you divide by six like individual oil injection you will get the 3.1-3.7 oil pump volume as in the 01 tech guide. So check if your oil pump id mark and make sure is reads 6R400, this may be your problem. I will try and post this but I am having a hard time converting .bmp to .pdf

oil inj.jpg
 

SBH2OMan

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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

Ok just verified, your service manual tests all six lines, if you divide by six like individual oil injection you will get the 3.1-3.7 oil pump volume as in the 01 tech guide

OK, so you are saying rather than doing the main outlet line, instead test each line individually? Won't that still cause the engine to under-oil??? Seems like the pre-mix tank is easier and faster...? I have access to a tank of pre-mix, so that's not a big deal.

So check if your oil pump id mark and make sure is reads 6R400, this may be your problem.

What/where is the "oil pump id mark"? Are you saying that I might have the incorrect oil pump for my motor?

I will try and post this but I am having a hard time converting .bmp to .pdf

Download a program called "jing" http://www.techsmith.com/jing/ Then you open up the document, take a "picture" using Jing, annotate it as desired, then use the "Screencast" function to post the picture to a web URL. Then open up the URL (which is automatically captured to your clipboard) and right click on the picture to get the actual picture URL (which will end in ".png"). Then use this URL with the "insert image" button on this forum. Sounds harder than it is.

Your pictures are only showing up in thumbnail size, so I can't read them.... :(
 
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Re: Yamaha S250TXRX (1999 OX66 250) using 2x oil it should be...

Disreguard the above was looking at S200X..., what I meant to say was if you divide the total pump output by six you should have 5.7-7.9 cc and the chart directs you to pump ID number 65L00 which according to your pics, you have the correct one on the motor. Page 1-53 of 01 Tech Guide. Just trying to save you the hastle of finding premix.

oil inj.jpg
 
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