yamaha fourstroke crank bearings

airshot

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
5,090
Whew.......glad I am still a big two stroke fan, these four strokes are gonna be big headaches when it comes tine for overhaul or repair. Still a big fan of KISS....
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
37,840
??----If you machine the warped head to be flat.-----The cam bearings will no longer be in line when head is installed.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
37,840
Was given a 90 HP 4 stroke motor.---A 2005 model.-----Dealer took head off the inspect " leakage " of some sort.------The corrosion in the water jackets is beyond belief.----Dealer sold owner a new motor and did not even want to keep this 2005 motor for parts !
 

99yam40

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
9,086
??----If you machine the warped head to be flat.-----The cam bearings will no longer be in line when head is installed.

in line with what?
I am failing to see how the alignment would change by resurfacing the head to block surface.
the belt has tensioner to take up slack.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
37,840
??--Belt tensioner has nothing to do with this.------There is more than one cam bearing.----If the head is warped and machined true again, the cam bearings will not be lined up any more.-----Would result in the cam flexing.
 

99yam40

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
9,086
so is the warp of the head the problem or is the milling of the head surface the problem?
if the head was not warped and all the cam bearing are still in line, then resurfacing the head should not be a problem, right?
 

carkivey3

Recruit
Joined
Dec 12, 2023
Messages
3
so is the warp of the head the problem or is the milling of the head surface the problem?
if the head was not warped and all the cam bearing are still in line, then resurfacing the head should not be a problem, right?
it wont just be the bottom mating surface that warps but the whole head. surfacing will just flatten the bottom. with that said install cam and bearings without valves and or cam followers and see how they spin. i think you will be fine
 

99yam40

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
9,086
sounds like he needs to check the cam bearings line up after welding and before milling.

If out , maybe line boring the cam holes and then see if you can find new cam bearings to fit the new hole size
 

boscoe99

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
1,965
If a machine shop cannot keep the cylinder head surface parallel to the cam shaft bores maybe they should not be in the business of reworking a cylinder head.
 

99yam40

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
9,086
If a machine shop cannot keep the cylinder head surface parallel to the cam shaft bores maybe they should not be in the business of reworking a cylinder head.
from what I am understanding, it does not have anything to do with the milling of the head, it is to do with the possible warping of the head before or during the welding
 

boscoe99

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
1,965
from what I am understanding, it does not have anything to do with the milling of the head, it is to do with the possible warping of the head before or during the welding
A machine shop should be able to deal with both warping and milling while keeping the cam shaft bores aligned.

Recognizing that not all heads that are warped, or which need surfacing, are candidates for a successful repair. It will be up to the machine shop to decide which can be repaired and which need to be scrapped.
 

flashback

Captain
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Messages
3,963
Yes, the shop is the the key. Like doctors, some finish first and others last.
 

vroom ZOOM

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
414
If the weld doesn't warp it you'll be fine.
The guy that will be doing it for me welds aircraft engine cases, very well respected and definitely knows what he is doing. Obviously it will get preheating and heat treatment of sorts.
 

vroom ZOOM

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
414
Just to be clear...
The cams spun freely when the head was removed, and after checking with a straightedge, there was NO warpage - nada. zero. It did have some mild corrosion, which my machinist brought to my attention as being a possible problem that could cause the head gasket to blow later. The original failure was corrosion of the block, which ate away the ENTIRE deck. The head got a little corrosion, and my machinist offered to have me find another head. However, these motors often blow balancer gears, the bits of which plug the oil passages and destroy the cam bearings, rendering the heads useless. I plan on doing a balancer delete on this engine to avoid those issues.

Since I can't find a good head, and a new one is as much as an entire new motor (well not as much, but still a ton of money) the machine shop will grind away the corroded areas of the water passage near the deck and the deck itself, and will send them to a reputable welder. The head will then be decked to cut the welds flush, not because it is warped.

Just a little backstory, maybe most of you know:
When the fourstrokes where coming out, they were so heavy that a material with a higher specific strength was needed to bring the weight down, and so they did. Except that the new alloys would rot like crazy, especially in the case of yamaha (looking at the F225) and to a lesser extent, suzuki. Most of the newer motors have that issue sorted, but there are plenty of motors out there that are in the corrosion years (i'd say somewhere between 2000-2014) so buyer beware!
 

ct1762@gmail.com

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
859
Just to be clear...
The cams spun freely when the head was removed, and after checking with a straightedge, there was NO warpage - nada. zero. It did have some mild corrosion, which my machinist brought to my attention as being a possible problem that could cause the head gasket to blow later. The original failure was corrosion of the block, which ate away the ENTIRE deck. The head got a little corrosion, and my machinist offered to have me find another head. However, these motors often blow balancer gears, the bits of which plug the oil passages and destroy the cam bearings, rendering the heads useless. I plan on doing a balancer delete on this engine to avoid those issues.

Since I can't find a good head, and a new one is as much as an entire new motor (well not as much, but still a ton of money) the machine shop will grind away the corroded areas of the water passage near the deck and the deck itself, and will send them to a reputable welder. The head will then be decked to cut the welds flush, not because it is warped.

Just a little backstory, maybe most of you know:
When the fourstrokes where coming out, they were so heavy that a material with a higher specific strength was needed to bring the weight down, and so they did. Except that the new alloys would rot like crazy, especially in the case of yamaha (looking at the F225) and to a lesser extent, suzuki. Most of the newer motors have that issue sorted, but there are plenty of motors out there that are in the corrosion years (i'd say somewhere between 2000-2014) so buyer beware!
i would think it also had to do with they way the runners were designed... maybe letting moisture linger longer than desired?
 

vroom ZOOM

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
414
i would think it also had to do with they way the runners were designed... maybe letting moisture linger longer than desired?
soda can metal... a lot of yamahas of this generation had the corrosion problems, most notably was the F225.
 
Top