Wrong New Prop Or What?

[Rick Stephens]

Since I do very little DIY stuff on our boat, wife and I have to completely trust the only marine service here that will work on a 1992 boat. Our last marine service in Florida, told us that our boat was definitely the oldest boat they'd work on. IOW, they were doing us a favor by working on it.

When we take the boat in next Spring, for "summerization", I will ask the service if our carb needs to be re-jetted. If they say "yes", but don't do that type of work, than may have to buy a new carb from here. At least a carb bought here should be ready for the 5,000 ft. level/elevation here.

We changed the anodes to "freshwater" ones, but didn't know about re-jetting a carb for high elevation (5,000 ft.). Guess nobody that owns a powerboat moves from Florida up to Colorado or surrounding states. We did, but that's us.

I got that you aren't going to do the work. But I also get that you have no idea what the mechanic is going to do, can do, is willing to do, or even should do.

Your comment about the mechanic not being willing to rebuild the carb, yet willing to install one that is rebuilt without having to jet it, says you are looking for a bruising. No carburetor is going to come calibrated for 5200 foot elevation. Not going to happen, no matter where you order it from. It will have the same jets in it that it had when it was sent in as a core from wherever the previous boat owner was when he gave up on it and bought a rebuilt.

Besides, your problems here are much worse that just jetting for altitude. Your motor will not run. It is not prop. The motor has a problem. It needs a full going over starting with compression test, ignition check, carburetor rebuild and possible re-jet. If it was my boat, I'd have the basic checks done by 10 this morning. Take me longer to fix what I found, and I'd have to get a carb kit and the carburetor rebuild would take me into early afternoon. But this is BASIC stuff. Nothing fancy here. ANY 'mechanic' who won't jump right in and do this is a fake.

 

[LuvBoating]

I got that you aren't going to do the work. But I also get that you have no idea what the mechanic is going to do, can do, is willing to do, or even should do.

Your comment about the mechanic not being willing to rebuild the carb, yet willing to install one that is rebuilt without having to jet it, says you are looking for a bruising. No carburetor is going to come calibrated for 5200 foot elevation. Not going to happen, no matter where you order it from. It will have the same jets in it that it had when it was sent in as a core from wherever the previous boat owner was when he gave up on it and bought a rebuilt.

Besides, your problems here are much worse that just jetting for altitude. Your motor will not run. It is not prop. The motor has a problem. It needs a full going over starting with compression test, ignition check, carburetor rebuild and possible re-jet. If it was my boat, I'd have the basic checks done by 10 this morning. Take me longer to fix what I found, and I'd have to get a carb kit and the carburetor rebuild would take me into early afternoon. But this is BASIC stuff. Nothing fancy here. ANY 'mechanic' who won't jump right in and do this is a fake.

Ok, first, the mechanic did NOT say he wouldn't install a new carb. We have never asked the marine service anything about the carb, so have no idea where you got that from. He simply stated on the invoice, from May of this year (2021), the engine ran fine (on muffs/hose), compression good, etc., etc.. And, when I look at my gauges on the dash, with the engine running, everything looks fine.

Yes, I'm not a mechanic, especially a marine one. It's been over 20 years since I've even worked on a vehicle engine. I'm a "computer" type guy and fully retired now, so most "physical work" is no longer in my life.

The marine service we take our boat to is the ONLY one that will service the age of our boat (1992). And, there are only two marine service centers in the area we live in. The other one won't touch our boat due to the age. So, since I know very little-to-nothing about marine engines, or even modern day vehicle engines, I have to leave everything up to a qualified mechanic. The marine service we go to is huge! Currently, they have a 10 day to 2 week waiting period on "winterizing" a boat. They do that many boats here!

I just don't know what to say. When a boat owner literally knows basically nothing about a marine engine, they must go with a marine mechanic that does.

One other thing, we don't take our boat out enough during the summer to use up that much gas. My wife is employed from home, Monday thru Friday, and on weekends here...........it's an absolute mess with many, many boats at local lakes. Just can't use up the amount of gas that we probably should. Didn't do it either in Florida.

 

[Rick Stephens]

"Ok, first, the mechanic did NOT say he wouldn't install a new carb. We have never asked the marine service anything about the carb, so have no idea where you got that from."

I was going by this sentence:

I will ask the service if our carb needs to be re-jetted. If they say "yes", but don't do that type of work, than may have to buy a new carb from here. At least a carb bought here should be ready for the 5,000 ft. level/elevation here.

You maybe stated that with a different meaning, but it implies there is a magic solution in a rebuilt carburetor box and the service won't have to calibrate the new rebuilt. My point is, there is little to zero likelihood of getting a drop in rebuilt carb that is calibrated to a boat, especially one at 5200 ft. And it is much more likely that the rebuilt carburetor you installed in Florida is the cause of the current issues.

It is pure luck that anyone buys a rebuilt carburetor that is properly calibrated to any given motor and most especially corrected for altitude. There are a LOT of variations in seemingly identical carburetors with long lists of calibration parts - jets, power valves, needle lengths, springs, accelerator pump settings and so on. These are all different depending on manufacturer of the carb and all the dozens, sometimes hundreds of applications that carburetor is configured for.

Other issues:

"One other thing, we don't take our boat out enough during the summer to use up that much gas."

I don't know a bit about the fuel types available in Florida. However, if it is an ethanol blend, then it has a fairly short shelf life. A non-ethanol gas has a bunch longer storage life but still measured in months, not years. If you have ethanol in your tank, it will separate the ethanol out of the gasoline. This drops the octane rating of the gasoline below that which the motor needs to run. It also leaves a highly corrosive mixture of alcohol and water and acids in the bottom of the tank. And the tank is on a boat, so water presence is almost a certainty. Worse yet, it was in a boat in Florida where the humidity is always closer to 100% than to 50%. Gasolines last a lot longer in Colorado than in Florida. If you have old fuel in your tank, it needs pumping out and the tank cleaned.

Hardest thing on a boat is disuse. I have the same problem. I got my boat out twice this year. Too much work. Probably cost me more than $200 for each day of fishing.

 

[LuvBoating]

I was going by this sentence:



You maybe stated that with a different meaning, but it implies there is a magic solution in a rebuilt carburetor box and the service won't have to calibrate the new rebuilt. My point is, there is little to zero likelihood of getting a drop in rebuilt carb that is calibrated to a boat, especially one at 5200 ft. And it is much more likely that the rebuilt carburetor you installed in Florida is the cause of the current issues.

It is pure luck that anyone buys a rebuilt carburetor that is properly calibrated to any given motor and most especially corrected for altitude. There are a LOT of variations in seemingly identical carburetors with long lists of calibration parts - jets, power valves, needle lengths, springs, accelerator pump settings and so on. These are all different depending on manufacturer of the carb and all the dozens, sometimes hundreds of applications that carburetor is configured for.

Other issues:



I don't know a bit about the fuel types available in Florida. However, if it is an ethanol blend, then it has a fairly short shelf life. A non-ethanol gas has a bunch longer storage life but still measured in months, not years. If you have ethanol in your tank, it will separate the ethanol out of the gasoline. This drops the octane rating of the gasoline below that which the motor needs to run. It also leaves a highly corrosive mixture of alcohol and water and acids in the bottom of the tank. And the tank is on a boat, so water presence is almost a certainty. Worse yet, it was in a boat in Florida where the humidity is always closer to 100% than to 50%. Gasolines last a lot longer in Colorado than in Florida. If you have old fuel in your tank, it needs pumping out and the tank cleaned.

Hardest thing on a boat is disuse. I have the same problem. I got my boat out twice this year. Too much work. Probably cost me more than $200 for each day of fishing.

The last gas fill-up we had in Florida was at the Dry Storage. After the marine service emptied out all of the older gas in it, we had it filled at the pump next to the dock. They only carried non-ethanol gas. After we filled the remaining 1/2 tank here, last Oct 2020, before having the boat "winterized", we added a bottle of marine gas treatment (for ethanol) to the tank and the service mechanic put in Gas Stabilizer for winter storage.

Bottom Line Here: We are going to ask the marine service questions about the new prop (17p) as well as about the carb and old gas. Whatever they recommend, we will (most likely) have to do, no matter what that is.

 

[LuvBoating]

Ok, what I have found out about the forum is, most-to-all members do their own mechanic work on their boat. I don't know how many 70 plus (Seniors) are on this forum that would still do mechanic work on their boat, but I would guess, not many, if any at all.

Wife and I really appreciate all of the replies that we received about our problem/problems, but will end up having to rely on what the marine service and mechanic say about it. We have no other choice.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Well, this thread appears a pretty much waste of your time.

 

[GA_Boater]

Ok, what I have found out about the forum is, most-to-all members do their own mechanic work on their boat. I don't know how many 70 plus (Seniors) are on this forum that would still do mechanic work on their boat, but I would guess, not many, if any at all.

Wife and I really appreciate all of the replies that we received about our problem/problems, but will end up having to rely on what the marine service and mechanic say about it. We have no other choice.

You assume you too much. Many of us are old farts and still work on our boats.

What are you going to do if the marine service and mechanic won't work on your boat?

 

[Rick Stephens]

I want to revise my last post....

I am a geek, owner of MacGurus for the last 20 plus years.. I also own and run a welding/fabrication shop. I want to never stop learning. There is no reason a technologist such as yourself cannot get familiar enough and educated enough with your boats power system to understand any and all maintenance needs doing. Otherwise, you are always and totally at the mercy of the attention span and greed of whoever you turn it over to.

 

[LuvBoating]

You assume you too much. Many of us are old farts and still work on our boats.

What are you going to do if the marine service and mechanic won't work on your boat?

Well, I'll just say this, I've only known one guy, my 1/2 brother, who still, even after retirement, works on his vehicles. He is 76. But, he hates computers and loves the grease/grim of working on an engine or anything else dealing with it. He use to work for the State of PA in Heavy Equipment. He was a supervisor, had his own office/Secretary, but he told me "99% of the time, I'd be in the garage working with the rest of the mechanics". He'd jump into his work clothes and off he'd go. His Secretary would do all of his computer work, and I do mean "all".

I have no doubt the marine service will help us with our boat. Wife and I have to rely on them, because there's nobody else here to rely on. Our boat is just too old and other marine services, miles away, won't do a thing to it due to it's age.

 

[LuvBoating]

I want to revise my last post....

I am a geek, owner of MacGurus for the last 20 plus years.. I also own and run a welding/fabrication shop. I want to never stop learning. There is no reason a technologist such as yourself cannot get familiar enough and educated enough with your boats power system to understand any and all maintenance needs doing. Otherwise, you are always and totally at the mercy of the attention span and greed of whoever you turn it over to.

Ok, I'm not that much of a "techy". Yes, I know about computers, but that knowledge is certainly limited.
Many years ago, I got hired by a fencing company to be part of a "fence building crew". That job lasted a whole 3 hours, before I quit. I actually retired from Purchasing and Inventory Management. I was so, so happy, after years of working warehouse/shipping/receiving, to finally go into my own office and be able to wear casual office clothes. Computer, phone, filing cabinet.............I so much loved that job.

However, I do know about EFI (Electric Fuel Injection) and really, really wish our boat had that. We've had a lot of things done to our boat/engine and folder after folder (22 years worth) filled with invoices of repairs. It is very important that we get the boat fixed, so we can sell it in a couple of years.

 

[LuvBoating]

One other thing here, forum members, have you known anyone who has an electric winch on their boat trailer? We do and it works very, very nicely. Just got to the point that neither of us had the strength to use the manual winch, so bought, and had installed, the electric one. Installed a Starting Battery on the trailer ourselves. Yes, we did that!

 

[achris]

Resetting is NOT recommended by Merc, just a change of propeller to get the revs back to spec. You have far more than a jetting problem. Did you read what I wrote?

 

[GA_Boater]

One other thing here, forum members, have you known anyone who has an electric winch on their boat trailer? We do and it works very, very nicely. Just got to the point that neither of us had the strength to use the manual winch, so bought, and had installed, the electric one. Installed a Starting Battery on the trailer ourselves. Yes, we did that!

I'm sorry, Man. This getting bizarre.

 

[LuvBoating]

Resetting is NOT recommended by Merc, just a change of propeller to get the revs back to spec. You have far more than a jetting problem. Did you read what I wrote?

Yes, I read what you said about the gas and other things. BUT, since we have no way to get rid of the gas in the tank, we have to use it up. As far as the other things go...........the engine starts and runs up to operating temp. Change the prop back to what it was summer of 2020, when we got it up to 2200 rpms, that is all good enough for us. If we can get more rpms out of the engine, that will be great, if not, will have to settle for what we can get. We will ask the marine service and mechanic what needs to be done, including carb adjustment or replacement and what the engine needs and go from there. As I've stated, I do not, and I repeat, "I do not" work on marine engines. We have to, it's a must, that we trust the marine mechanic that will "summerize" the boat next Spring and what he does/doesn't suggest/recommend. That is all we can do.

 

[LuvBoating]

I'm sorry, Man. This getting bizarre.

Actually, I was only asking if any member has seen anyone using an electric winch on a boat trailer. What's so bizarre about asking that? Just a question.

 

[nola mike]

Yes, I read what you said about the gas and other things. BUT, since we have no way to get rid of the gas in the tank, we have to use it up. As far as the other things go...........the engine starts and runs up to operating temp. Change the prop back to what it was summer of 2020, when we got it up to 2200 rpms, that is all good enough for us. If we can get more rpms out of the engine, that will be great, if not, will have to settle for what we can get. We will ask the marine service and mechanic what needs to be done, including carb adjustment or replacement and what the engine needs and go from there. As I've stated, I do not, and I repeat, "I do not" work on marine engines. We have to, it's a must, that we trust the marine mechanic that will "summerize" the boat next Spring and what he does/doesn't suggest/recommend. That is all we can do.

Well then, nothing else to say. My guess is you have bad gas/clogged filter/plugged carb. If you want to chance getting stranded/doing damage to your boat by continuing to run it (btw, it isn't going to start running better...) without diagnosing or fixing it, go for it. Certainly draining the tank (at least testing the gas and changing the fuel filters) is well within the realm of most anybody, and would be an easy starting point. If you can't drain the tank, you can find 100 people on CL that will. If you're just planning to drop it off at the mechanic anyway, what exactly is the question? Before I sign off this thread, the point that many have tried to make (and I'm not sure if you're just not getting it or something else):

1. The prop isn't your problem
2. Re-jetting isn't your problem (it may run better with a re-jet, but won't have a problem hitting 2k rpm).
3. Altitude isn't your problem
4. SOMETHING ELSE is the problem, and if you trailered the boat back to FL today it would still run like poop.

 

[LuvBoating]

Well then, nothing else to say. My guess is you have bad gas/clogged filter/plugged carb. If you want to chance getting stranded/doing damage to your boat by continuing to run it (btw, it isn't going to start running better...) without diagnosing or fixing it, go for it. Certainly draining the tank (at least testing the gas and changing the fuel filters) is well within the realm of most anybody, and would be an easy starting point. If you can't drain the tank, you can find 100 people on CL that will. If you're just planning to drop it off at the mechanic anyway, what exactly is the question? Before I sign off this thread, the point that many have tried to make (and I'm not sure if you're just not getting it or something else):

1. The prop isn't your problem
2. Re-jetting isn't your problem (it may run better with a re-jet, but won't have a problem hitting 2k rpm).
3. Altitude isn't your problem
4. SOMETHING ELSE is the problem, and if you trailered the boat back to FL today it would still run like poop.

But, question is..........would the boat even start if the gas was/is that bad? Because it's carbureted, if it sits to long on the trailer, it can be hard to start anyway. Once it's started, and let run to op temp and then shut off, it will start up immediately. By this time, the carb has gas in it (wet) and no problem starting. And, I do mean an immediate start! The throttle will stay in the Neutral position, turn the key and "whamo" the thing starts right up. Now, that's after the initial starting, allowing to run awhile and then stopping. If the gas was really that bad, the engine wouldn't start at all or start right away after already being started once. So, as far as bad gas, I'm not sure about that. And, if the carb was plugged, would it even start?

A new gas filter was put in this last May during "summerizing" (just to let you know). The marine service mechanic will have to start the engine in order to "winterize" the engine with Fogger in a couple of weeks. Then, for "summerizing" next May, he will have to start it again to make sure there are no hose leaks. But, when we do take it in next May, we are going to, somehow, get it fixed. Engine tune-up, whatever. Plus, most likely, put on a different prop.

We are absolutely NOT going to avoid whatever is going on with it.

 

[1960 Starflite]

From a 74 year old. I still do my own repairs. Last year I replaced lower shift cable on my IO.

Let the OP go. In my opinion, he's bored and wants attention.

 

[LuvBoating]

From a 74 year old. I still do my own repairs. Last year I replaced lower shift cable on my IO.

Let the OP go. In my opinion, he's bored and wants attention.

Sorry, not bored and don't need attention. My wife gives me all of the attention I need. LOL

And, just because you are 74 and do your own repairs, that doesn't mean every 74 year old does. But, good try anyway.

 

[achris]

But, question is..........would the boat even start if the gas was/is that bad? ..

Yes, 'bad gas' just means the lighter elements have evaporated off, leaving the fuel still viable, but with less resistance to knocking. The engine will still start and run, but as soon as the engine is loaded up, damage will be done.

We are absolutely NOT going to avoid whatever is going on with it.

If you are unwilling or unable to work on the engine yourself, take it to someone who can and will. Your current service centre is throwing you under the (very expensive) bus... I care very little if they are 'the best marine service centre' in the area, they aren't doing the right thing by you...

BTW, the prop isn't your problem. Get the engine sorted out and fixed PROPERLY before you even think about the prop...

Chris....