Wow, smokers will love this

[QC]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

All I know is that Tobacco has been one of the most hotly debated topics here. I submit that is because there is some raw emotion (rightly so) along with a lot of parallels to other issues; personal freedom, the environment, health and politics. I apologize if my comments seem to be crafted to divide politically. They are not intended as such, just again, there seem to be some parallels worth noting . . .<br /><br />I still believe that this world has gone nuts on second-hand smoke as opposed to the real dangers of inhaling tobacco products. Just because one use has been proven to cause serious health problems, does not mean that all uses and resulting smells and unpleasantries are equally or even remotely as dangerous.<br /><br />I will also say, considering treedancer's comments, that my views are not ever intended to sway someone. Only to clarify our differences. Agreement is not probable, so I don't pursue it. A clear understanding of where and why our relative positions differ is well within our capabilities if you ask me . . .

 

[ob]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

Originally posted by P.O.N.Y.:<br />

Originally posted by JB:<br /> The real religion of the left is what is so wrong with everybody else and what is so wonderful about ME!! Mostly it is what you are doing wrong and how you must change YOUR ways. <br /><br />This hysteria about how smoking is killing everybody in your vicinity while real, serious, air pollution is not is pure, exaggerated hyperbole. When someone who never smoked is diagnosed with lung cancer or heart disease it must be caused by the next door neighbor who smokes on his back porch. Gimme a break! <br /><br />Well, dudes, my religion is liberty and freedom so you best keep your distance or I might pollute you to death.

Saying "everyone in your vacinity" is a little broad and exaggerated, but I see your point. No where did I for one say air pollution isnt bad or as bad as smoking. It is bad, it is a problem, but last time I checked this thread was about smoking.....completely independant of air pollution. I agree that is a huge problem that needs addressing and it is affecting the health of many........as is smoking. I dont ignore pollution in my dads diagnosis either btw........but there is no way you can tell me second hand smoke didnt play a major role. To call what I say exaggerated hyperbole is pretty easy to do being outside the situation. Plain and simple whether you want to agree or not, its classified as a "smokers" cancer for a reason. Usually only smokers get it.....so dont try and convince me air pollution was more key and I should just ignore second hand smoke.<br /><br />Listen no one seems to get the fact I dont care if people smoke. I just think its wrong in restaurants............at least until owners are willing to pay for proper ventilation and areas seperated by more then a 1/4 wall. Smoke in bars all you want, smoke in public all you want.....where the negative health affects to others are diminished by sheer air volume.<br /><br />Yeah exhaust has nasty stuff in it too, and they are working on fuels to lessen that.....much like non smoking restaurants are set up to lessen the health problems of second hand smoke. Nothing I say here is gonna matter so I'll stop at that.<br /><br />In case you all havent figured this out yet each side has valid points.......this issue wont and prolly cant be resolved without lots of disagreement an fighting. I am sick of those of you who refuse to awknowledge that fact.....Coming in here and spewing your ideals like your the most important thing in the universe, like your view is the only view and the best. I at least attempt to see both sides.

I don't see anywhere in his comments that JB or anyone else is telling or implying to you that second hand smoke played little or no role in your fathers lung disease.I did see where JB made a reference that lung disease diagnosed on a person that never smoked,caused by a neighbor that smokes on his back porch would be unlikely.You must feel the same way ,because above you state that you don't have a problem with people that smoke in public places.You even included bars,which I assume is indoor smoking.Wouldn't non smokers there breathe second hand smoke as well as restaraunts?

 

[Link]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

Well like a friend of mine said a few months ago.<br />I'm sure glad I quit smoking 13 years ago! <br />Because you guys (me) are being singled out as the most evil people on the face of this earth! (WA, CA State, Nation wide) <br /><br />This was a joke between the two of us as friends.<br /><br />Yes it's a "Hot Topic" right now in the political sense. And won't stand for long. For us smokers it may seem like a life time <br /><br />Back when everyone (almost) smoked the big NO-NO was ALCOHOL and the band wagons circled <br />Prohibition came to be the law! <br /><br />Supply and demand took over.<br />1920-1933 Nothing much changed except who made money. Can we say "Speak Easys" <br /><br />Reminds me of MADD or DAMM (Drunks Against Mad Mothers)<br /><br />Another (MADD) feel good people (with just cause) that went wild) Today you can't have two glasses of wine and drive home.<br /><br />Maybe tomorow we will have Smoke Easys! <br />A back room place where you can have a simple cup of coffee and a smoke without getting busted and fined!<br /><br />My take on it. <br /><br />I'm glad you guys kept it cival.. however I must step out of my house to have a smoke. If not I could be charged with animal abuse!<br />Smoking in the Cave I built for them!

 

[CJY]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

Who said anything about lawnmower exhaust?Did you even read what I said or just see the word lawnmower?The topic that was being discussed was whether smoking OUTSIDE is intrusive to non smokers.The comparison between auto exhaust and second hand smoke in relation to volume is not even in the same galaxy.I frankly don't get what your point of view really is.Do you?

ob, did you read any of my other posts? I did read yours and I thought I answered it several times. I said:<br /><br />

If you want to smoke in the great outdoors, in your home, your car, I don't care. The smokers that choose to do what they want, when they want, around whomever they want is what brings laws like this about. As long as there are smokers that believe it is their right to endanger me or those around me, I am all for this type of law. <br />

As far as projectiles go, I felt that to be a rhetorical question and off topic to be considered. As far as the answer to it, yes I do consider it. That is why I stop the mower when pedestrians or vehicles pass by my immediate mowing area. It's common sense. Much like the same common sense that would stop a smoker from smoking in the vicinity of a non-smoker. A common sense many are without.

 

[Pony]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

I did see where JB made a reference that lung disease diagnosed on a person that never smoked,caused by a neighbor that smokes on his back porch would be unlikely.You must feel the same way ,because above you state that you don't have a problem with people that smoke in public places.You even included bars,which I assume is indoor smoking.Wouldn't non smokers there breathe second hand smoke as well as restaraunts?

Yes they would breathe second hand smoke in the bar, but people who go to bars know this before going there. Its part of the bar scene. Plus I dont know if you have been to a bar lately, but most if not all of them I have been in have some sort of "smokeater" that a restaurant couldnt have because of noise...............long story short the buildings serve differnt purposes and to me that means different rules apply.<br /><br />I don;t think it unlikely that a non-smoker can get "smokers" cancer.........I agree that it is unlikely for it to be a neighbors fault or along those lines. Non-smoking restaurants wouldnt have saved him from the cancer either. I just from an ethics and sanitary point of view feel smoking in a restaurant which aside from being a closed space is also a place of dining, is wrong. <br /><br />Sorry if I came out harsh to JB in that response, you have to understand its a touchy subject. I agree with what he says in a general sense. Its the begining of the paragraph above that is the main difference.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

Yes they would breathe second hand smoke in the bar, but people who go to bars know this before going there.

And when you go to dinner you see it also and can expect it, so that one don't fly.<br />I'm just glad the places here at home still have the smoker's section. It makes it so much easier on the non smokers on the other side of the divider.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

I'm done with this one. I am going to have my cigars when I want one, be it sitting after dinner or on my back porch, sorry.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

Well like a friend of mine said a few months ago.<br />I'm sure glad I quit smoking 13 years ago! <br />Because you guys (me) are being singled out as the most evil people on the face of this earth! (WA, CA State, Nation wide)<br />

Your right Link, it seems that some people have to have someone to discriminate against; I guess it is the smokers at the present, who knows what it will be in a few years. Maybe people That eat at fast food restaurants, which is a real possibility with the food police and all. <br /><br /><br /> I’ve already stated further up in the thread that I think it is a dumb law. I think that the police could be serving there community better in some other capacity, then enforcing some law that a politician put in to get votes for the next election.

 

[Pony]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

Originally posted by SBN:<br />

Yes they would breathe second hand smoke in the bar, but people who go to bars know this before going there.

And when you go to dinner you see it also and can expect it, so that one don't fly.<br />I'm just glad the places here at home still have the smoker's section. It makes it so much easier on the non smokers on the other side of the divider.

Pretty simple SBN....it does fly. As I said its bar of the bar scene. Its not however part of the restaurant scene. Diners maybe, restaurant not so much. I'm not suggesting laws are needed to make things easier on the non-smoker simply suggesting that a smoker should be able to not smoke for an hour out of their day while in a restaurant. I don;t thing laws are necessarily the only way to do that.......maybe a little common sense or just a little respect. Which you have so clearly shown you dont have at least regarding your last comments.<br /><br />

I'm done with this one. I am going to have my cigars when I want one, be it sitting after dinner or on my back porch, sorry.

Did you miss where I said I smoke cigars too, The difference is I know how to show respect towards other people. You are prolly one of the people who light up in sports stadiums instead of going to the concourse, which is a rule that violates your I'll smoke where I want to policy. <br /><br />I'm done with this thread too..........I'll leave with this. Thanks to the few of you smokers out there who have resect for others. hats off to ya. To the rest..........grow up.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

I don;t think it unlikely that a non-smoker can get "smokers" cancer.........I agree that it is unlikely for it to be a neighbors fault or along those lines. Non-smoking restaurants wouldnt have saved him from the cancer either. I just from an ethics and sanitary point of view feel smoking in a restaurant which aside from being a closed space is also a place of dining, is wrong. <br /><br />I couldn't disagree more. A restaurant is whatever the owner of that restaurant wants it to be. It is his property. If he wants it to be non-smoking - great. If he wants it to be smoking - great. But to have the polite police show up and tell him how to run his business is just wrong. It is up to the owner to understand who his customers are and how best to earn their repeat business. Infringing on this basic right is wrong. Just like a smoker firing one up in the bedroom of a non-smokers home is presumptuious and rude.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

In Washington, attedance went down at first...<br />Now I want to say business seems to be better than ever since the smoking ban....<br />It is also very enjoyable to watch the smokers lurking outside where they belong! ....JK

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

It is also very enjoyable to watch the smokers lurking outside where they belong! <br /><br />This is exactly what this is all about.

 

[solidwaste]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

All I have to say is it will all one day come down to $$$$$$$ thats right the all mighty buck..Will all of us nonsmokers be willing to pay more taxes weather it be home or income or sales or a new tax, That is when smoking is band everywhere..Most people have no idea how much tax is built into ciggarrete prices..So will all non smokers anti up then and pay alittle extra with no compliant and not to mention all the new welfare cases you have now made IE tabbaco farmmers and so on..Will you now in youre gracious hearts find it to work just a little longer for them..Or will it then be not in youre nature..Thousands of people have died to preserve this wonderful democracy of ours they died so that we would have the right to have this discusion..They did not sacrafise there life so that you could take someone elses rights away from them because you dont like it..NO WERE IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS DOES IT SAY THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED!!!!! Stop taking this country down the road to complete socialism..It doesnt work never has never will no matter what youre college professors told you..

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> It is also very enjoyable to watch the smokers lurking outside where they belong! <br /><br />This is exactly what this is all about.

Hey Pointer, you are just

here.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

No, SBN....<br />This discussion went off topic along time ago...<br />Ya said you was dun....<br />It's O.K. to smoke in public....<br />So it should be O.K. to drink in public, too?<br />What say you?....JK

 

[magster65]

Re: Wow, smokers will love this

Originally posted by ob:<br />I can remember at the powerplant I worked at when they banned smoking in the welding shop.Sure wouldn't want to breathe second hand smoke when you can suck the vapor from lo-hi rods all day.<br /><br />While I agree that smoking ban in closed buildings serves a good purpose,I think the rest is going a bit too far.Like quite a bit.<br />BTW,I don't smoke.

Amen.<br />I'm an ex-smoker... yeah the worst kind of anti-smoke-ite but really... prohibition?<br />Too much regulation in our lives already!