wont idle

[wagawaga]

just got 86 force 50 cfi took a while to get it running. when i first start it idle is stumbling and lots of smoke (not in cowling). when it warms up it wont idle at all. any edvice on what i can do to cure these problems?

 

[maxum247]

Re: wont idle

Have you cleaned up the carb and made sure the float is adjusted correctly and inlet needle is free and and not sticking and the carb isn't flooding with gas, or the choke isn't sticking?
Check and make sure it is pumping water good and that the thermostat is working correctly, if heating up will cause a lot of white smoke and run rough!

 

[wagawaga]

Re: wont idle

how can i check that it is pumping water and that the thermostate is opperating

 

[maxum247]

Re: wont idle

how can i check that it is pumping water and that the thermostate is opperating

I'd replace the impeller in the lower unit if it hasn't been replaced recently and possibly the whole water pump if the pump housing looks worn and scared.
Also replace the thermostat if it hasn't been then you know what your working with, a little spent now on these parts may save you the agravation of waiting for a tow in and possibly a tow bill.
Sitting in the hot sun is no fun when your ready to be at the dock at the end of the day!

 

[shankwc]

Re: wont idle

I have an 87 force 50 with the same problem. it doesn't like to idle - but i can jam the throttle and get it going and maintain both high (25MPH) and low speeds. but whenever I idle it dies.

I had some trouble with this engine a few weeks ago. the boat dealer gave me a list of repairs (about $1500), including rebuilding the carb, rebuilding the fuel pump, new thermostat, new temp sensor, and a couple of other small things. with some encouragement from this forum I tackled the repairs myself. the temp sensor and thermostat were easy. I replaced the entire water pump body, including impeller. At first it wasn't working, so i took apart the lower unit and reassembled. i think the real problem there was my flush hose not getting good water pressure. It pisses good now.

I didn't rebuild the carb because it looked to be in good shape. There is no dirt or gunk in the carb. what should i be looking for? Do I really need a whole kit or can I just take it apart clean it and reassemble? What should I clean it with? Also, someone mentioned decarbing - what is that?

Thanks!

 

[eurolarva]

Re: wont idle

Wagawaga. Before you start dumping money into that motor you really should do a compression test and a spark test. If that motor is new to you you could have a fried cylinder. By the time you nickel and dime yourself with impellers, water pumps, carb kits and fuel pump kits you have over a hundred dollars invested in a motor that if the cylinder is toast you could be looking at $1500 in repair bills. A compression tester can be purchased from sears or most auto parts stores for 30 dollars and is the first test you should perform on any outboard you purchase. The above information is good and valid if spark and compression are good.

Good luck

 

[eurolarva]

Re: wont idle

shankwc. If you know where the idle mixture adjust screw on the carburetor is find out how many turns out it is from lightly seated. Remove that screw completely and spray WD 40 or carb cleaner in that hole with a spray straw. Let sit for about 10 minutes and do it again. Replace that screw and re set it where it was (probably 1 1/4 turn from full clockwise) and see if that improves your idle. If not you should get a rebuild kit for it and rebuild the carb.

 

[maxum247]

Re: wont idle

First a good manual is a must when doing your own repairs!
Decarbing the engine is the process of removing carbon deposites from the piston tops and the inner side of the head. I use Quicksilver Power Tune Engine Cleaner that I get from my local Mercury dealer, follow directions on can. Be prepared to replace the sparkplugs after as the process of decarbing the engine fouls the sparkplugs, they can be cleaned and reused but it's best to put in new one's afterwards.

I used carb clearner that I got at my local NAPA store in an aerosol can, it's best to blow the carb out with compressed air after soaking or useing spray in the passage ways of the carb.
If you don't have a compressor there is air in a can that is made for that purpose, your local auto store may have it.
Carb kits come in several different forms for my engine, most come with a bowl gasket, inlet needle, and the smaller gaskets that go on the outside of the fuel bowl on the brass bolt that holds the fuel bowl in place.
Some kits come with an idle needle and spring included depending on the kit you buy.
Look at the idle needle tips closely and make sure there is no large grooves around the tip end of the idle needle because of someone tightening them down too tight.
Always seat your idle needle screws lightly to avoid damaging the tips while going through the adjustment process on the carb after rebuiding.
Also if the tip of the idle needle is worn on one side that is a sign of excessive viberation such as a damaged propeller, just something to be on the look out for.
I had trouble finding one kit that had everything that I wanted for the carbs on my 89 125 Force so I cleaned the carbs up good and replaced the bowl gaskets and inlet needles on my carbs and reset the float level and and was up and running in a couple hours time.

 

[shankwc]

Re: wont idle

thanks eurolarva - I will try that tomorrow.

I got the seloc on-line manual - but it's assumes I know more than I do, so I need to get my skill and knowledge up a little to make better use of it.

Thanks for the advice all!

 

[paul88]

Re: wont idle

I've had this problem on my 85 force 125. It'll stall in idle after being run, but If I start it and push it in gear quickly it will run ok. From personal experience, this is what seemed to prevent stalling. It is a fuel problem, or at least mine was.

The things I've done that have made a difference:
-Fuel pump diaphragm (a good cheap part to replace as part of preventative maint anyway)
-Carb sync, top carb was actually closed with the bottom open at idle

The things I've done that have made only marginal difference (still stalled):
-Idle speed screw
-Idle mixture screw
-Carb float adjustment/cleaning

Your engine should be 750rpm~ at idle in gear. The stator won't charge properly with much lower.

The book also says that the fuel recirc system can cause these problems after 2-3min of running, so I got a new diaphragm for it but its not in yet so I can't tell you on this one. Also, your 50 may not have this.

 

[wagawaga]

Re: wont idle

thanks everyone for the replies. i will try all that was mentioned and when i get to the bottom of this problem i will tell you what the results were

 

[shankwc]

Re: wont idle

Ok, what is carb sync? Is this something I can do myself? Do I need special tools?

Additionally, I took the plugs out and they have a good coating of black oily stuff on them both. Is this normal? how do I test the sparc?

 

[paul88]

Re: wont idle

Carb sync is when you have more than 1 carb it is connected with a rod. You need to make sure they are both in the same position at the same time (both open equally flat, both are the same open when at idle) by adjusting the length of the rod. You can eyeball it for decent results. I'm not sure if the 50 has two or not.

The plugs should look oily, but the black stuff that doesn't come off indicates possible richness or weak ignition. Some black stuff, however, is normal. Get some new ones if you think it could be an issue, and you should also set your idle mixture. Twist the screw to 1-1/4 turns out from lightly seated. Unscrew it until it bogs and then screw it in until it stops gaining RPM and then meet the two in the middle. Be careful with these things because if you run it too lean, you're effectively starving it of oil as well.

You test the spark with a spark tester from the auto store. Its only a few bucks and comes with an adjustable screw so you can set the gap. You clip the plug wire to the end of it and clip the other wire to ground and then start it and you can see the spark. I think 7/16ths inch for this motor, but I could be wrong. Also a simple timing light can tell you if it is sparking or not. You should get the tester though because a weak spark won't show up with a light.

Another thing to check is to look inside the plug boots for rust.

 

[shankwc]

Re: wont idle

Ah. I have a single carb 2 stroke. I also figured that my mix has too much oil (I used 3oz per gallon instead of 2.5 oz per gallon). I am going to get new plugs and dilute the gas a bit and see how she does.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: wont idle

I would keep the gas at where you have it. At 3 oz/ gallon you are at 43 to 1 and that is fine. With a two stroke you are always better to rich then too lean.