Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

[Brewman61]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

Air don't freeze.

Oh yes it does. At approximately 50 degrees Kelvin, or -210 C, or about -350F.
Of course if it gets that cold here, the last thing I'm worrying about is if frozen air expands like frozen water does.

 

[81 Checkmate]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

Can i have some of that popcorn..........

Whatever flots your Boat.......Everone has their own opinon!

 

[Another retired guy]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

Can i have some of that popcorn..........

Whatever flots your Boat.......Everone has their own opinon!

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but opinions will vary depending on location & severity of winter and personal experience. If I was looking for the answer to this question I would go with the recommendation of the local marine professionals. They know the local weather and they've "seen it all".

 

[Bondo]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

Originally Posted by Bond-o
Ayuh,.... If ya know, 'n understand yer motor, With the drain plugs out, the holes poked, 'n prodded,.....

Gravity insures it's Drained, Completely...

You know, I am not an idiot. I am a mechanic by trade. Not a marine mechanic, and I am not claiming to know everything, but a 4 cycle water cooled engine, is a 4 cycle water cooled engine. I have torn down many an engine. After draining blocks, pulling water pumps, and pulling heads there is almost always SOME residual water. I have pulled heads, and when on the bench, I have had water leak out. Not alot, but still some water. Is there a difference, in the way marine heads are cast, as opposed to their automotive counterparts, that insure the water jackets dont have any nooks that could trap water? Just because I am not a moderator, doesnt mean I am an idiot. I have to say, the block would be competely drained, but my concern would be the heads. My next concern would be condensation. In closing, Filling up the water jackets, with GOOD MARINE antifreeze, rated for -100, would insure protection against trapped water freezing, plus most GOOD MARINE antifreeze have rust inhibitors, to at least slow down the process, unlike the RV antifreeze sold at wal-mart, which is meant for water systems, not engine antifreeze.

Ayuh,.... I fail to see where my quote calls Anybody an Idiot, much less yerself....
'n my status is irrelevant...

Many folks have No clue as to how a motor is put together, at ALL...
Anything past where's the key, 'n they're lost...

Yer a Mechanic,... Have ya ever torn down a SBC,..??
The boat motors We run are just standard Chevy castings,...
Cam, induction, ignition, 'n electrical are what's Marine 'bout 'em,...

Do ya know the water flow patterns,..??
The water circulatin' pump pushes water into the front of the block, 'n it flows up through the heads, into the intake manifold, 'n is either held back by the t-stat, or released out through the t-stat...
'course, the t-stat housin' expells excess impeller water, 'n heated water to the manifolds/ risers....

The High point, is the t-stat housing...
The low point is the block drains, aft lower corners of the block...
The drain is a 1/4" pipe plug, which is 'bout a 3/8" hole,...
So long as ya prod the crud through the hole, every bit of water, that can do damage is Drained...
Ditto the manifolds/ risers...

The only restrictions inside the motor is the head gasket ports,...
They still completely drain the heads, 'n intake, though Volvo has some V6s out there with a dedicated intake drain...
If there's enough rust to cause an issue, it's been over heatin' for awhile...

Any water left in the block can freeze, 'n No damage can occur, condensation, left over water, All irrelevant...
It has Nothin' to push against...

The exception is the circulatin' waterpump will usually hold back, 'bout a quart,...
If it freezes, it might blow the seal, but the tin backin' plate allows for expansion, 'n it'll run another day...

Other exceptions are P/S coolers/ oil coolers/ fuel coolers/ etc...

If you, or anybody else wishes to use antifreeze,... Go for it....
I've always lived on or near the 45th parallel, 'n know what Cold weather is,...
-30? / -40? is Expected in February, sometimes in January,...

Air, Still don't freeze...

Oh yes it does. At approximately 50 degrees Kelvin, or -210 C, or about -350F.
Of course if it gets that cold here, the last thing I'm worrying about is if frozen air expands like frozen water does.

Ayuh,.... I remember learnin' in Old Town High School science class that Water, is the Only element that Expands at freezin',...

Everything else contracts as temps drop, 'n expand, Only with heat....

 

[wellcraft-classic210]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

What if the restriction happens after the cooling water has passed through, or gravity, or air lock. Too many variables to gamble against. The local Mercruiser dealer removes the t-stat when they winterize, and on outboards, they flush with antifreeze, very similar to what Another retired guy says HIS marina does.

Are you concerned with Low gravity?

 

[sharboat]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

Thanks for all the good information. I took a good look at my motor and found that the thermostat housing has a plug on top
- that is one side of the thermostat and another plug on the side that is on the other side of the thermostat. I plan on making
up a thermostat bypass set up that I will use to winterize the motor and leave it closed for boating season. This will make it
easy to winterize the motor without having to get up to operating temperature and wonder if the thermostat was fully open
when putting in the propylene glycol.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

Ayuh,.... I fail to see where my quote calls Anybody an Idiot, much less yerself....
'n my status is irrelevant...

Many folks have No clue as to how a motor is put together, at ALL...
Anything past where's the key, 'n they're lost...

Yer a Mechanic,... Have ya ever torn down a SBC,..??
The boat motors We run are just standard Chevy castings,...
Cam, induction, ignition, 'n electrical are what's Marine 'bout 'em,...

Do ya know the water flow patterns,..??
The water circulatin' pump pushes water into the front of the block, 'n it flows up through the heads, into the intake manifold, 'n is either held back by the t-stat, or released out through the t-stat...
'course, the t-stat housin' expells excess impeller water, 'n heated water to the manifolds/ risers....

The High point, is the t-stat housing...
The low point is the block drains, aft lower corners of the block...
The drain is a 1/4" pipe plug, which is 'bout a 3/8" hole,...
So long as ya prod the crud through the hole, every bit of water, that can do damage is Drained...
Ditto the manifolds/ risers...

The only restrictions inside the motor is the head gasket ports,...
They still completely drain the heads, 'n intake, though Volvo has some V6s out there with a dedicated intake drain...
If there's enough rust to cause an issue, it's been over heatin' for awhile...

Any water left in the block can freeze, 'n No damage can occur, condensation, left over water, All irrelevant...
It has Nothin' to push against...

The exception is the circulatin' waterpump will usually hold back, 'bout a quart,...
If it freezes, it might blow the seal, but the tin backin' plate allows for expansion, 'n it'll run another day...

Other exceptions are P/S coolers/ oil coolers/ fuel coolers/ etc...

If you, or anybody else wishes to use antifreeze,... Go for it....
I've always lived on or near the 45th parallel, 'n know what Cold weather is,...
-30? / -40? is Expected in February, sometimes in January,...

Air, Still don't freeze...



Ayuh,.... I remember learnin' in Old Town High School science class that Water, is the Only element that Expands at freezin',...

Everything else contracts as temps drop, 'n expand, Only with heat....

For anyone reading this .. Bondo is correct. .. but you also have to determine whats good for your boat and warrantys.

There are also larger boats that you really should run some pop through your systems before the cold snaps.

Im no pro on winterizing .. but I have been through the whole " oh crap its gonna get cold drain the water out of the hoses so it does not bust " route.

If your on a warranty situation .. then flush and fog with a pro. ..

YD.

 

[hhornig]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

Ok guys I have been lurking. Last year I purchased a 1999 boat with a 4.3 Mericruiser and I was going to winterize it, but ran out of time. The local boat shop winterized it and changed my oil and filter-$200. That was a bit much for this tight-wad. They pulled the drain plugs, and removed a 1/2" pipe plug at the front bottom of the thermostat and pumped a small amount of anti-freeze in there. I am planning on doing the same thing. Any suggestions?

 

[kawakx125]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

this is what i did-- Flushed motor with muffs and ran it for about 20 min to get the sta-bil through the fuel system, disconnected fuel pump and then let it die out. sprayed fogging oil down carb and cranked motor over to get it distributed through cylinders. pulled the 5 blue plugs on the block and let the water drain out, then pulled t-stat housing. what i noticed here was that there was still water sitting on top of intake manifold, maybe 1/4'' or so. the way the passages are in there it didn't seem like it'd ever drain completely so i let it be. From here I started pouring in pink rv/marine antifreeze until it started coming out of block drains. replaced block drains and continued filling until it came out of water pump drain. replaced that and topped if off and replaced housing. filled up hose from water pump and reconnected it. then filled exhaust manifolds until i heard it start coming out of the water exits on drive and then replaced the hoses. Ended up using 4gal total so i think i got all the raw water out. Drained the fuel filter and replaced it, will put new fuel filter and thermostat in in spring, i didn't have gasket and wasn't sure what temp it took either. still need to drain the drive oil but i didn't have time to round that up and get it done. gonna be 31 here tonight so motor was what i was mostly concerned about, wasn't expecting to have that low of temps this early here. think that'll work ok for me? first time winterizing, tried to research as much as i could and do what i could on my budget and time constraint for the time being.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

this is what i did-- Flushed motor with muffs and ran it for about 20 min to get the sta-bil through the fuel system, disconnected fuel pump and then let it die out. sprayed fogging oil down carb and cranked motor over to get it distributed through cylinders. pulled the 5 blue plugs on the block and let the water drain out, then pulled t-stat housing. what i noticed here was that there was still water sitting on top of intake manifold, maybe 1/4'' or so. the way the passages are in there it didn't seem like it'd ever drain completely so i let it be. From here I started pouring in pink rv/marine antifreeze until it started coming out of block drains. replaced block drains and continued filling until it came out of water pump drain. replaced that and topped if off and replaced housing. filled up hose from water pump and reconnected it. then filled exhaust manifolds until i heard it start coming out of the water exits on drive and then replaced the hoses. Ended up using 4gal total so i think i got all the raw water out. Drained the fuel filter and replaced it, will put new fuel filter and thermostat in in spring, i didn't have gasket and wasn't sure what temp it took either. still need to drain the drive oil but i didn't have time to round that up and get it done. gonna be 31 here tonight so motor was what i was mostly concerned about, wasn't expecting to have that low of temps this early here. think that'll work ok for me? first time winterizing, tried to research as much as i could and do what i could on my budget and time constraint for the time being.

You really should fog the motor while its running.
What you are describing seems like a lot of work for nothing. I have a new 4.3. I just pulled the 5 plugs out and drained all the water.
Done.

 

[achris]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

You really should fog the motor while its running.
What you are describing seems like a lot of work for nothing. I have a new 4.3. I just pulled the 5 plugs out and drained all the water.
Done.

Now this is a clever man... Minimal work, no expense and the jobs done properly....

 

[Husker-Q]

Re: Winterizing without removing Thermostat?

this is what i did-- Flushed motor with muffs and ran it for about 20 min to get the sta-bil through the fuel system, disconnected fuel pump and then let it die out. sprayed fogging oil down carb and cranked motor over to get it distributed through cylinders. pulled the 5 blue plugs on the block and let the water drain out, then pulled t-stat housing. what i noticed here was that there was still water sitting on top of intake manifold, maybe 1/4'' or so. the way the passages are in there it didn't seem like it'd ever drain completely so i let it be. From here I started pouring in pink rv/marine antifreeze until it started coming out of block drains. replaced block drains and continued filling until it came out of water pump drain. replaced that and topped if off and replaced housing. filled up hose from water pump and reconnected it. then filled exhaust manifolds until i heard it start coming out of the water exits on drive and then replaced the hoses. Ended up using 4gal total so i think i got all the raw water out. Drained the fuel filter and replaced it, will put new fuel filter and thermostat in in spring, i didn't have gasket and wasn't sure what temp it took either. still need to drain the drive oil but i didn't have time to round that up and get it done. gonna be 31 here tonight so motor was what i was mostly concerned about, wasn't expecting to have that low of temps this early here. think that'll work ok for me? first time winterizing, tried to research as much as i could and do what i could on my budget and time constraint for the time being.

This is also what I did (though I did fog while running until engine stopped). I debated whether or not to fill with AF - and ended up going the same route you did with the 4 gallons of pink RV AF. Overkill? perhaps - but for $12 I get a full nights sleep all winter so that in itself is worth it! Sad day now as the boat is all buttoned up and battery out - hope April gets here fast!