Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

Bubba1235

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Seen a couple threads concering the prices marinas or their mechanics charge so I thought I would play devils advocate a bit. Keep in mind I am talking about marinas in my area of the mid-west.

There is a marina on a medium to small lake for sale not to far from me. Asking price is $2.2 million for 2.44 acers with 150' of water front. Property taxes last year were just over $67K. It includes 65 slips, a small show room, a LARGE parts area and a three bay shop to work on boats.

I considered buying it (sort of) and sat down and put a pencil to it. Yes it sold some boats last year and when it was all said and done, (including interest on floor stock), they were barely more than a break even sale. Nothing there to get excited about.

The slips lease / rent for $1600 a year. At 65 slips that's roughly $105K a year gross revenue, if they remain full 100% of the time. (They don't.) Of course they require constant maintenace so it's not all profit. The seller tells me he figures if the slips pay for the taxes, insurance and facility maintenance each year it's a very good year. Most years it doesn't quite cover it.

There are gas pumps and like most marinas its high priced, sort of. He doesn't pump nearly as much gas as does a filling station and its not a national chain like most gas stations so he buys gas on the open spot market. Translated, he pays 10% to 15% more than the average gas station. They pump/sell roughly 8000 gallons a month. If he is making $0.25 a gallon profit he makes a whopping $2000 a month from it. (Keep in mind that is usually for 5 months or so a year.) $10K profit a year.

So in many respects it comes down to what he can sell in parts and accesories and what the shop can bring in. Do a little math. $2.2 million is the investment and to be gracious say non-shop profits after taxes, insurance, maintenance is $100K a year. (It's not but for arguments sake.) Theat leaves a HUGE revenue demand on the shop. If the shop charges $100 an hour it will take 22,000 man hours just to pay off the initial investment. The average person works 2000 hours a year, but that is not the case in the mid-west.

In the mid-west we get 4 or 5 good months for boating and maybe another month of so so boating. During the off season the marina cuts back from 5 people to 2 people due to minimal work or sales.

All in all, buying into the marina doesn't make much sense from a business investment stand point. I believe I could make a better return if I took the same money and put it in a bank with a simple passbook savings account. (And a whole lot less worry and work.) In my case i would be borrowing money to buy it and would have interest I would have to pay. I took a pass on buying it. I wasn't all that serious to begin with to be honest but the fact remains no one has made an offer on it in three years. The numbers just aren't there although the property is priced right.

To be honest, I think anyone that does own and operate a marina does it because they like doing it and if all goes well can make a decent living from it but they are never going to be hugely successful. At least not in the vast majority of the mid-west.
 

Dolfan0925

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

I totally know where you're coming from. I have the hardest time trying to invest my millions of dollars as well.. :p
 

Huron Angler

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

You make some good points there Bubba, not the easiest way to make money I agree.

I'm pretty sure that liability insurance costs a pretty penny on top of everything else, since boating is inherently dangerous.

Healthcare costs for full-time workers is difficult to factor in as well with rising costs. It's no wonder businesses are not hiring in this environment given the risk of doing so.

I'd be happier running a marina than sitting behind a desk probably, but I like knowing I have a paycheck without the stress of making payroll every two weeks to employees.

Dolfan, Bubba did mention that he would be borrowing the money to do this so I'm not sure that your comment applies in this case.:)
 

oldjeep

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

Very few marine mechanics are on the water around here - still costs $120 per hour for shop time. Good reason to buy a manual and do the work yourself. There is a time and a place to pay $120 an hour for someone to work on your boat, but most of the general maint stuff can be done by anyone with a few basic tools.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

well, from your analysis, which looks good, you see why they have to charge more for sales and services, and why it makes more sense, economically, to sell out to the condo builders. And then the boaters all cry, "what a shame! I loved that place! Now I don't have any place to launch, get gas, and get my boat worked on."

Now I am the first one to save money by buying at cheaper places, and both for the money and satisfaction, to do my own work. But I don't go to Walmart; I would rather pay more to the local guy. I don't want to see them going out of business.

So first, make a conscious effort to buy your sunscreen, ice, bait, etc. from the marina. The few extra dollars, in the whole cost of the day's boating, won't matter to you. If you use the bathroom or dumpster or hose, go buy something. Second, if you can afford it, try to give your repair and maintenance work to them. If you go in for something you can't do yourself, give him a list of additional things you can.

If you don't want to support the local marina, fine. Just keep your mouth shut when it closes.

(ps I am not directing "you" to anyone who has responded here, just being general)
 

roscoe

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

We have very few on the water sales/service dealerships or full service marinas. And not that many that offer fuel.


I see 2 problems with your analysis.

1- "In the mid-west we get 4 or 5 good months for boating and ..."

We get 4 good month up here in WI, I would think you would have more. Not saying those are good month for the marina, but most of us northerners would be on the water for 6-8 months if we had your weather. Even I have had the boat out in March, and on Halloween.


2- ".... no one has made an offer on it in three years. The numbers just aren't there although the property is priced right."

Obviously it is not priced right.

The numbers aren't there to support the time investment, and liability, for sure.
 

Frank Acampora

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

I don't think that most people would complain about the shop hourly charge--after all, auto shops charge almost as much and let's face it: the mechanic has a family to support too.

I believe what sets most peoples teeth on edge and gets their dander up is when they don't get their money's worth--read incompetent or shoddy workmanship. A long time ago, the Japanese proved that with automobiles, people were willing to pay for quality products and the American auto business suffered for a couple of years until they got the hint. Consumers do vote wisely with their wallets.
 

roscoe

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

Sure, there are the few hearty souls that will take their boat out even if its breaking ice, they are not the average boater. Priced right in this case is based on property value, cost to install the gas pumps, put up the buildings, etc. Truth is I don't think you could start from scratch and build it for the same money.


I'm sure you couldn't start from scratch and build new for anywhere close to that.

But with no offers in 3 years, its not priced right.

Ok, have to go now, the boat launch is 22 miles away and I want to be on the water in 45 minutes.

Cheers.
 

Brewman61

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

I'm thinking the typical factory certified marine mechanic has quite a lot of money invested in their education and tools. Sure, some of us can perform some of the more basic jobs, and some of us may be a little more proficient- and will take on more intense jobs. However, I'm gussing that we are in the minority, and there are far more boat owners out there who couldn't/shouldn't mess around with this stuff. Many don't want to, others don't have that kind of time.
Even a marine shop off the water still has considerable expenses to deal with.
I'm also willing to be that service providers get plenty of business correcting the screw ups that happen with us DIY'ers. So it's definately not a one sided issue.
Modern engines and drivetrains aren't exactly easy to work on and diagnose. I used to do allmost all of my own car repair back when cars were much easier to service.
Too complicated now, and I don't have the desire.
 

v_fourmax

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

Actually this where places like wally world and even the internet have made it more difficult for places like a marina to operate and show a decent profit. Years ago sourcing parts, oils, marine lubricants, props and even things like skis and tow tubes local marinas were the source that people needed to go to get such supplies.

Now just about anything is available with the click of a mouse and available to the public at the same prices or less that the small independent marinas pay for the same products. So profit sources which used to be there are no longer a viable stream of income. That lost income needs to be made up somewhere for the business owner to keep the lights on.

But yet we the public as consumers even though we brag about what a good deal we got on such and such on the internet still expect our local marina to have a complete stock of parts so that whatever part we may need on a late Friday evening or Saturday morning to save and salvage our boating weekend because of a parts failure to be there and have the part in stock and sell it to us for what you can find it for at some wholesaler on the internet.

We also expect that same marina to have expert experienced factory trained technicians, have the latest electronic diagnostic equipment that cost thousands of dollars and yet the only time that we ever walk in their door and spend a dime is when we have a problem that we cannot figure out or requires that high dollar test equipment to diagnose, never mind we do all of our own simple service and buy the parts to such maintenience from the guy online where we saved 20.00 by buying there.

With the majority of the customers acting in the above manner then don't worry, it will not be long before all the on lake marinas are history replaced with condo's. If I had a real interest in dealing with the marine industry I would try to find an off water location a few miles from a very busy lake such as a closed down car dealership that had a showroom, service bays and ample parking lot and become a dealer for a few lines of affordable boats and become a dealer for several major outboard manufacturers if that were affordable and available.

I would hire a couple of really good techs and build my business as being a dealer that took customer service to the next level. I would not in any way hide the fact that my regular customers that also remembered my business when it came time for lubricant purchases and general parts as well as just normal yearly service type of work would most definately also be treated as priority customers and "emergency" repairs for those customers would take precedence over a customer that only came in when they had no other choice.

Even then in todays world it is hard to compete and make a good living in a niche market as to where your primary business season is memorial to labor day. Of course the further south you are the better the business season.
 

NYBo

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

Excellent thread, guys. Thanks for starting it with that great analysis, Bubba. Going into almost any business these days is a risky proposition; this seems riskier than most, especially with gas being over $4 a gallon in much of the country.

Now, if one were to hit the MegaMillions lottery...
 

H20Rat

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

one thing to keep in mind... At least here up at the northern landlocked edge of the US, you won't find a pure marina/boat dealer. The marina's are generally owned by a dealer, who may or may not even be located on site. And it would be foolish to have boats as your only line of business. Every single boat dealer here also sells ATV's, motorcycles, snowmobiles, UTV's, and an occasional car or tractor dealership, as well as service for all those...
 

v_fourmax

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

one thing to keep in mind... At least here up at the northern landlocked edge of the US, you won't find a pure marina/boat dealer. The marina's are generally owned by a dealer, who may or may not even be located on site. And it would be foolish to have boats as your only line of business. Every single boat dealer here also sells ATV's, motorcycles, snowmobiles, UTV's, and an occasional car or tractor dealership, as well as service for all those...

I have no clue as to whether the marine industry such as boat franchises or outboard franchises operates the same as motorcycle franchises but I do know that of the major 4 japanese motorcycle manufacturers that to be able to sell their bikes the franchise fees are very costly and the inventory required on the floor and in the parts dept. does not allow a dealer to just stock the models they want and the inventory must be maintained to a certian level.

Also popular selling models are distributed to the dealers based off of sales from prior years and even though you might be able to physically sell 10 bikes of a particuliar model your allocation may only be one or two based off those prior sales. Then the only way to get more of a model is to find another dealer that is willing to sell you his allocated bikes.

The buy in fee for these franchises is pretty spendy as well. I know YEARS ago it was over a hundred thousand per brand and that does not go towards nothing but the franchise fee no inventory. Also a franchise needs to be at a minimum of over 30 miles from an existing dealership to even be considered.

I have no idea whether these same types of things apply to the marine industry but just adding the big 4 japanese motorcycle and atv dealerships is not a cheap proposition to get into. Bike and ATV shops are closing at about just as fast of a rate as boat dealers.
 
Joined
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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

Great thread... gives me one more reason to support my local marina and shop guy.

Hope the spot market on fuel drops!

Not sure if I'd be up for the investment in a marina as a business either.. however what a great way to retire!
 

H20Rat

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

I have no clue as to whether the marine industry such as boat franchises or outboard franchises operates the same as motorcycle franchises but I do know that of the major 4 japanese motorcycle manufacturers that to be able to sell their bikes the franchise fees are very costly and the inventory required on the floor and in the parts dept. does not allow a dealer to just stock the models they want and the inventory must be maintained to a certian level.


At least up here, one dealer has alumacraft, godfrey, ranger, hurricane, premier, moomba boats, mercury, as well as seadoo pwcs/boats, skidoo snowmobiles, and can-am motorcycles.

Dealer #2 is bennington, searay, lund, seadoo, mercury, mastercraft, moomba, skeeter, bayliner, as well as the full yamaha line (outboards, snowmobiles, motorcycles), and skidoo.

Dealer #3 has both merc and yamaha engine lines, crestliner, glastron, smokercraft, stratos, sunchaser, sylvan, as well as arctic cat snowmobiles and ATV's. (and icehouses)

All 3 own marinas, one is partially on site but doesn't even offer gas.

diversify, diversify, diversify!
 

CC245

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

Great thread Bubba! Your analysis is right on. This is the very reason I got out of the motorcycle business years ago. I was a partner in two multi-brand dealerships on the west coast. Friends of mine that are in other types of businesses never believed the low profit margins we were working on. For example, parts margins where around 25%. My friends clothing store they were working with around 100 to 200%. There are much better places to invest than the powersports industry.
It is definitely a labor of love. You can make a living, but you make a lot less than most people think. I am lucky to have a great Marina right across the river from me. I bought my new boat from them and support them as much as possible.
 

hostage

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

I hate to say it, but anyone who starts a small business does it because the really like it or they are most likely a dreamer. If they are opening it to make money, the are sadly wrong. Most business fail and the ones that stay around don't really make that much. Then there are the few business that end up doing well. It is kind of like the life and chances of someone becoming a rock stars. IMHO their is more money in B2B, retail is at the market's mercy.
 

oldjeep

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

one thing to keep in mind... At least here up at the northern landlocked edge of the US, you won't find a pure marina/boat dealer. The marina's are generally owned by a dealer, who may or may not even be located on site. And it would be foolish to have boats as your only line of business. Every single boat dealer here also sells ATV's, motorcycles, snowmobiles, UTV's, and an occasional car or tractor dealership, as well as service for all those...

Depends - around here for the guys who sell jetskis and jetski boats that is true (Yamaha, Skidoo, Polaris) - but the "real" boat dealers just sell boats and pretty much shut down for the winter.
 

Silvertip

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

Small businesses are started because of an opportunity or possibly a dream but they fail because of a bad business plan. Not knowing what your competition is, what your customer base is, what the business climate is, and many for similar questions is what makes businesses fail. What is missing from the original analysis are a bunch of tax implications (federal and state witholdings for example) self employment taxes etc., but there are tax advantages for the owner IF the business is organized correctly. LLC and "S" corporations are considered pass-through meaning the business pays to corporate income tax. Profit to the owner is based on the Schedule K1 where the income/loss from the operation is reported. If one expected to pay off a $2.2M investment in 11 years (22000 manhours) one would have to have 11 years of superb business and a much more expansive business than just marine repair, slip rent, and gasoline sales. Some states are also more tax friendly than others. As we have seen in Wisconsin, the Gov. is trying to fix that.
 

sasto

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Re: Why marinas / mechanics charge so much.

Most of the profit comes not from running the marina but when you sell it for 4mil 10 years from now.

Being friends with a couple marina owners in FL that struggle more in the summer than winter. They both have other investments to rely on. One marina here sold for 3 times what the guy paid for it. They turned it into a condo complex and sold the slips.

Good Luck, Bubba.
 
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