Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

[tasmania105]

I have a 1989 (I believe) Force 85hp that has recently gotten a new water pump impeller and while doing that I also discovered that the thermostat on it had been removed, but oh well on to my concern.
I have been trying to start my Force 85hp and whenever I start it on land with the garden hose it takes a lil while but it will start. But I try to take it to the ocean and after draining a brand new battery the engine will not start, it does crank over and almost sounds like it wants to start but in the end it won't.

Here is what I did so far to diagnose this problem:
1. New spark plugs
2. Checked that the spark plugs where getting spark from all three cables
3. Checked the fuel lines and they seem to be all working fine, all the way up to the carbs.

I'm thinking the carbs may need to be cleaned or rebuilt since the engine sat for a while without being use although I have started before and ran it in the ocean and it also starts on land with a garden hose but it takes a while.

Can anyone tell me what to diagnose next? or what could be the problem?

THANKS!

 

[emoney]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

There's not a whole lot to affect the "where" it will start, I wouldn't think.
It sounds like you're on the right path. I'd start with the carbs before anything.
Next, would be the entire fuel system from the tank all the way to the carbs
to include the fuel filter/fuel pump/fuel pump diaphram. I just went through
a slightly similar issue and found I had a bad diaphram. Like Jerry & Frank
are always saying, the Ethanol in today's gas is causing a lot of fuel issues
in these older outboards so check, re-check and re-check again the fuel system. With your admission that it's been sitting a while, that would
almost guarantee a need for a carb cleaning at the minimum I would think.
Also, I'm sure you know this, but you aren't using the old fuel are you?

It could be as simple as your primer bulb isn't holding from the tank or the
vent on the tank is clogged/closed. Good luck and don't forget the "iboats
checklist": Test Compression, then Spark, then Fuel.

 

[tasmania105]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

Thanks for your prompt reply...I have some what new tank with brand new gas mixed along with 2 cycle oil (50/1)...As for the gas delivery, I tried with the gas tank open, partly open and closed...

What else should I check besides cleaning the carbs?...I'm really persistant about using starter fluid but I'm gonna give that a try.

Thanks once again and please keep ur advice coming.

 

[couchise]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

have you tried squeezing the primer bulb to make sure the fuel is getting to the fuel pump. try the negative and positive cables on the starter.

 

[paultjohnson]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

...I'm really persistent about using starter fluid but I'm gonna give that a try

Hesitant ? Use the stuff with upper cylinder lube

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

FIRST!!!! Do a compression then a spark test!!!
Then check the fuel system. Ethanol is messing up a lot.
But first things first.Basics.Comp/spark then fuel.
Fill out the profile.You might be close to someone who can help.
You shouldn't have to use starting fluid.Good compression and spark delivered at the right time and the fuel system operating right.
Do these test and post the results.J

 

[mrdibs1]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

Post what you find. I have a similar issue that I'm paying dearly to have fixed. My mechanic is blaming the carbs having exhausted other alternatives.

 

[emoney]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

One thing you could check is pull the bowl off the carb. It's only held on with
one screw & a seal. First time I took mine off it had tons of 'junk' in there so
it was obvious lots of ugly had been flowing into/through the carb.

 

[bman1bpm]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

I've had this problem twice, first time (last season) it was bad gas. Second time it was bad plugs. What brand did you buy? I've been having a heck of a time getting plugs that a worth a darn. My current set are some antiques from frank a's garage ha.

 

[tasmania105]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

First of all I want to thank everyone who is collaborating with their input.

So far I have removed the carbs to clean them and I will post pictures of it and the stuff I found on the bowls.

Secondly, I wanted to do a compression test when I noticed that there was water coming out of where the head gasket is and I THINK! this may be the cause of why my engine is taking so long to start...Maybe there is not enough compression or perhaps since there is water leaking from the head gasket then that water is also getting into the cylinders and its not allowing the fuel to spark.

I'm also posting pictures of my cylinders so that hopefully you guys can tell me what is the stuff on the top of the pistons??? and just by looking at the pistons, do they look in good condition? I will be doing a compression test once I get the new head gasket and will post the results.

 

[bman1bpm]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

Thats just carbon on the pistons. They look to be in good shape, have nice sharp edges. Heres some pictures of what a bad piston looks like. As you can see in that side view, it came from a motor with 0 compression.

 

[bman1bpm]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

oh and yes, it does look like theres water getting into your #3 cylendar. Put your head on a flat surface and make sure its true before you put on a new gasket.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

Mad matt put something interesting on the other day,look for this http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=442086 J

 

[tasmania105]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

Ok guys so here is what I've done so far since my last post...I check my compression and I have 120 on cyl 1...118 on cyl 2...120 on cyl 3...I'm getting spark on all three ignition coils, I have brand new sparkplugs, I took the carbs apart and cleaned then..however, I'm now having a hard time getting the engine started and it won't reach WOT, actually nowhere near WOT...

What do you guys recommend I do or try next?

I am now leaning to believe that my fuel pump could be bad, so that's what Im gonna check next...Any advices are greatly appriciated

Thanks!

 

[AirForceOne]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

Have you checked the fuel filter? It may be the fuel pump if the filter is clean.

 

[tasmania105]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

Yes, I checked the fuel filter and it's clean...

 

[mauiboy]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

I just got a 1988 bayliner 85 np force and the guy who sold it told me to use starting fulid but I spoke with someone else and he said to pump up the ball and hold the key in for 8sec.
and it fired right up.

 

[tasmania105]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

My engine will start if I pour gas/oil through the carbs but only for about 5-10 seconds max and then it turns off.

 

[Skiwi]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

My engine will start if I pour gas/oil through the carbs but only for about 5-10max and then it turns off.

Minutes or seconds?

It sounds like it is not getting fuel from the tank, at least you have only a few things left to check.

When you prime the motor by squeezing the bulb does fuel flow into the carbs?
If not, start at the tank and work your way to the carbs checking for blockages.

If fuel flows when you manually prime/pump I would check the fuel pump next.

 

[tasmania105]

Re: Why isn't my Force 85hp not starting? (In the water)

Minutes or seconds?

It sounds like it is not getting fuel from the tank, at least you have only a few things left to check.

When you prime the motor by squeezing the bulb does fuel flow into the carbs?
If not, start at the tank and work your way to the carbs checking for blockages.

If fuel flows when you manually prime/pump I would check the fuel pump next.

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