Why is it this way?

[Kenneth Brown]

First off this is not a troll. It may appear to be one but it is not. I am simply trying to figure this out and have a better understanding. Secondly- I apoligize to any blacks we may have here on the board. This is not your doing and I don't hold it against you. I just have to understand, and if I can't understand then I'm ranting I guess.<br /><br />This deals with aff. action type of business. I am a white male, 30 years old, and grew up with every race. I have a hard time understanding the logic behind the govt. programs. Heres is what it says-<br /><br /><br />The Farm Service Agency (FSA) can make and guarantee loans to socially disadvantaged applicants to buy and operate family-size farms and ranches. Funds specifically for these loans are reserved each year. Non-reserved funds can also be utilized.<br /><br />A socially disadvantaged farmer or rancher is one of a group whose members have been subjected to racial, ethnic, or gender prejudice because of their identity as members of the group without regard to their individual qualities. For purposes of this program, socially disadvantaged groups are women, African Americans, American Indians, Alaskan Natives, Hispanics, and Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders.<br /><br /><br />It then goes on to say the following-<br />The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) prohibits discrimination in all its programs and activities on the basis of race, color, national origin, gender, religion, age, disability, political beliefs, sexual orientation, and marital or family status. (Not all prohibited bases apply to all programs.) <br /><br /><br />So if Joe Blow can't pick and choose who he lends money to how can the govt.? They say that they don't discriminate, at least not in some of there programs. As a minority (and yes whites are a minority in Texas) am I not now entitled to these govt. protections that have been offered to the minorites in the past? Whats the difference? By there own admission I am a socially disadvantaged farmer because I am being subjected to racial prejudice because I am a member of a group without regard to my individual qualities. Shouldn't that therefore quailfy me? They single me out and don't allow members of my race to be eligable so that in itself should make me eligable, right?

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Why is it this way?

Everyone knows affirmative action is overdue to be repealed, but you wont find any "minorities" asking to repeal it, and not too many politicians want to commit political suicide by sponsoring legislation to repeal it.<br /><br />I believe we are stuck with it, until the courts make judgements.<br /><br />Ken

 

[crab bait]

Re: Why is it this way?

cuz ya color

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Why is it this way?

I think you are right Ken. I just can't see how its right.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Why is it this way?

It WAS right.<br /><br />Remember how everyone says, It is not what you know, it is who you know.<br /><br />We'll non-whites couldnt get hired back then cause they didnt know anybody. So we had to give em a break so they could get some jobs.<br /><br />Now, they are in the jobs. <br /><br />Time to change it back, so we all have an equal opportunity, before it starts to backfire on its intent.<br /><br />EVERYONE knows it is wrong, but are you going to let a free ride be taken away from you? Nope. Just like many other government programs.<br /><br />Ken

 

[Link]

Re: Why is it this way?

kenimpzoom <br /><br />Very well said. My thoughts exactly. <br />Esp liked

not too many politicians want to commit political suicide by sponsoring legislation to repeal it.

Got a chuckle out of that!

 

[fatpratt1996]

Re: Why is it this way?

Really how many black, hispanic, etc. are there here in the U.S. trying to start a farm or ranch? But I do agree with you Kenneth

 

[b20]

Re: Why is it this way?

most discriminated group in the developed world?white male,aged 25-50.why?because if you're female,young,old or non-white there are many governemt agencies setup to help you.for every agency for WM there are 50 for non WM.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Why is it this way?

Long story, but if it wern't for aff action, I'd have an owner-operated dump truck buisness again.<br />I did that in the 70's until the "fuel shortage" and mechanical problems wiped me out. I WAS making great money up to that point. <br />I'm kind of 'sour grapes' about the entire issue now, so it's best I not add scarce 'fuel to the fire'.

 

[NYMINUTE]

Re: Why is it this way?

Has this nation accomplished anything with Affirmitive Action? No, the media still interferes. There is yet to be a poll or survey taken in this country where the results are not broken into race, sex, and/or religion. Who gives a rip in any poll what % of each group is for or against. The total is the primary reason for the poll. Those results usually generate more issues.

 

[fixin]

Re: Why is it this way?

When I decided to become an operating engineer it took 5 years just to get into the school.<br />Any minority-6 months!taint fair.

 

[deputydawg]

Re: Why is it this way?

I applied for a job years ago that was decided on by a merit commission. They were an EOE / AA employer, yes a government job.<br />We had to test for the position, then applicants were given a number value score. Applicants got points added for race, sex, past experience, military, then the written exam. SO a black woman with past military experience didn't even need to take the written test in theory. I was in the top scores of the acedemic test, but was not even high enough to rate an interview. The woman they did hire never made it through the probation period of the job. Turned out to be as dumb as a bag of hammers.<br />I do think that AA had it's place and time. I do believe that racism is still strong, but not like it once was. I believe that some of the so called minorities have kept racism alive and strong with their attitudes. Growing up on the Rosebud and Pine Ridge Indian reservation, being one of three or four white kids in a class of 200 I know racism to a certain degree.<br />I understand that there iks still a lot of anger and hatred of whites for things that happened in the not so distant past. I grew up in a racist family, maybe a sign of the times maybe the area we lived in, mostly ignorance. The feelings that my family and even myself feel towards Indians is not based on race, but on actions and lifestyles. Mostly we have taught them learned helplessness.<br />Anyway I could go on forever. BUT just try to start a magazine and call it Ivory, or maybe start the United Caucasion College Fund. <br />I have heard a lot of garbage from both sides of the racist coin. I still maintain the belief I have held since becoming an adult and seeing the world, we are ALL one race......The human race.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Why is it this way?

A very close friend of mine, and a person of color, wrote an editorial a while ago that got him death threats and almost kicked out of university. What did he say in the editorial?<br /><br />(paraphrased)<br />"It is time that we, the minorities of the country, stop looking for legislation to even the playing field. That will only lead to more resentment. What we need to do is work harder and EARN respect. Then, and only then, can we compete for the same jobs. It will take time, and much effort, but the results will be the respect we desire.<br /><br />Will this happen? Probably not, because we, like all people, tend to take the path of least resistance - we would rather have things handed to us, instead of working for them. It is time to stop this trend and get to work."<br /><br />The above is the paraphrase of his editorial that was published in the Univeristy of Pennsylvania school paper in the early 80's. My friend has taught me alot.

 

[JB]

Re: Why is it this way?

Anytime some social program tries to "level the playing field" their program eventually tilts the playing field the other way.<br /><br />Why? Because the playing field is dynamic and changing. If the leveling force isn't dynamic, adjusting to changing conditions, you get what we have now.<br /><br />That is not all bad. We WASP adult males are now getting a taste of what the "minorities" had to tolerate for generations. It is miserable, but educational.<br /><br />Being on the short end of discrimination is good for character building and the acquisition of tolerance.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Why is it this way?

Well I tell ya what JB- I admire you. You can see something in this I can't. Black kids I went to school wih could do anything I could do. We all recieved the same things from the same people. I was raised with good charecter builders and people that taught me tolerance. These "programs" are what are trying to make me dislike people because of skin color. I am 30. I started working a real job and paying taxes at 14. The longest I have been without a job since 14 is 2 weeks, and that was because I moved back home with the folks. I paid my fair share of the taxes. I just wish I could somehow recieve more benefit for the amount I have paid out.

 

[lundboat]

Re: Why is it this way?

People should be hired and promoted based on merit. However, minorities didn't pull descriminiation out of thin air to get an upper hand... it exists, did back then, still does today, our country does need to have a mechanism to force a fair playing field. <br /><br />I believe that Affirmative Action needs to be repealed/ammended, but this shouldn't be seen as a green light to descriminate again. If someone feels that they have been descriminated against based on race, religion, physical handicap or whatever they need to retain the right to seek protection by our laws.

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Why is it this way?

A friend of mine had very difficult time getting a loan to start his business.<br />He found a way around all the barriers by making his wife the senior partner and primary applicant of said loan

 

[JB]

Re: Why is it this way?

I appreciate your feelings, Ken.<br /><br />I think if you had grown up in the deep south in the 30s and 40s as I did you might feel differently.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Why is it this way?

Theres more to my thoughts. One side of my family was quite wealthy way back when. They did have slaves. Somewhere I have the will where my great,great,great grandfather was giving his slaves to his kids. Whenever slavery was outlawed they lost a significent portion of the estate. No biggie off of my back, I believe in working YOURSELF for what you get. Now the flip side. My other side came to America as indentured servants. Out of an entire family only a couple ever got their freedom, the rest died trying. Those that survived ended up down south doing sharecropper work. They worked till the farms went away. My mom lives about 3 blocks from where as a kid she picked cotton and took it to the mill. Does the words dirt poor mean anything? Now with those thoughts in mind think a little more. Only 3 houses on the 3 block long X four blocks deep (about 110-115 houses) section where they live are occupied by a white family. The majority are hispanic, most who have came to America in the last 4 years. It gives new meaning to little Mexico. There are 5 black families in that same area. Two of those families are also immigrants from the islands, St Thomas I believe. So this amounts to probably 80 households who are eligable for this style of loan while having paid in very little. Meanwhile the white families who have been here for a while are not eligable even though they have paid taxes forever. Go figure. As I said before my folks taught me tolerance. They did better than that. They taught me we are all the same. I had to grow up to have the govt. teach me we are different.

 

[JB]

Re: Why is it this way?

There is no question that white males are now getting the short end, Ken. I wont argue that.<br /><br />My point is that it is our turn.