Who would you really vote for?

[Mrs Soulwinner]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

Thanks guys, it's pretty cool to be here. I'll post as often as I get a chance....

 

[voodoo]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

very interesting.<br />I'm a Libertarian or a Bush man.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

After taking the survey I thought about the questions/statements and how they were worded. I thought about the various philosphies that from which certain points of view arise. After some pontification, I have decided to post some material to help me explain my perception that those who sided with Kerry according to the survey are iether Marxist or Communist. Now, before you freak out and accuse me of partisan name calling, look up the definition of each and have the integrity to honestly examine your personal beliefs and accept yourself for what you are; be it radical right wing extreamist, conservative, libertarian, liberal, marxist or communist. Here is the quote:<br /><br /><br />

Nineteenth-century historian Alexis de Tocqueville once observed, "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."<br /><br />Tocqueville was commenting on liberty and free enterprise, American style, versus socialism as envisioned by emerging protagonists of centralized state governments. And he saw on the horizon a looming threat -- a threat that would challenge the freedoms writ in the blood and toil of our nation's Founders.<br /><br />Indeed, a century after Tocqueville penned those words, elitist Democrat Franklin Delano Roosevelt tossed aside much of our nation's Constitution. Though its author, James Madison, noted in Federalist Paper No. 45 that "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined [and] will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce," FDR summarily redefined the role of the central government by way of myriad extra-constitutional decrees, and greatly expanded the central government far beyond the strict limits set by our Constitution. <br /><br />FDR, perhaps unwittingly, used the Great Depression to establish a solid foundation for socialism in America, as best evidenced in this dubious proclamation: "Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle."<br /><br />If Roosevelt's "American principle" sounds somewhat familiar, then you're likely a student of history (or The Patriot). Not to be confused with the Biblical principle in the Gospel according to Luke, "From everyone who has been given much, much will be required...", which the Left often cites as justification for socialist policies, Roosevelt was essentially paraphrasing the gospel according to Karl Marx, whose maxim declared, "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

PS, the problem with todays liberal is they look at the "needs" without considering the "abilities" of needy.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

You know, I would respect the Bush lovers more if they would just admit that they could give two fat hairy rats arses what the prez does as long as things stay status quoe. The glaring lack of the ability to look at the big picture, to actually see the long term effects of what is happening is shameful at the very least. If those planes hadn't have flown into those buildings that day, our current president would have been little more than another forgettable face. Instead, he gets to dazzle the masses with ineptitude coated in a thick greasy layer of fear mongering. Keep 'em scared. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is the whole point of terrorism, is to keep 'em scared. Do one large vile act and then just keep threatening them. The only problem is, our own administration is the one who is trying to keep us scared. It is small minded to fall for this tripe. Terrorism has been around for as long as man has been at odds with one another. Our current administration is not any more equipped to handle it than anyone else, so where does that leave them? They have failed at the rest of their responsibilies towards this country, and the bandaids they have tried have been overshadowed by the dramatic doubling of fuel costs that have caused the cost of living to increase, not to mention everything else. <br /><br />Soul, usually you are pretty alright, but this has easily been the most closed minded, massively right wing Rush Limbaugh-ish crap I have seen on this board yet. This is exactly why I can't wait until November 3rd. Maybe, just maybe all this ill-informed juvenile My-Daddy-Is-Better-than-Your-Daddy garbage can stop defiling this otherwise fine grouping of Proud Americans. We are all American right?<br /><br />I'm off to vomit now...

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

Jason, sorry you feel that way about my post. It is a compilation of quotes from far greater minds than mine. Your post speaks to one factor: terrorism. This election is about more than that; economics, (Bush inherited a recession which his economic stimuluos plan has overcome and all Americans keep more of their earnings today because of him), presciption drugs, (The Clinton plan for "vacinations for all" forced all but two flu vacine companies out of business, but he still screwed up by trying to protect American pharmaceutical jobs by barring imports from Cananda, right?), education, ( it is clearly wrong to demand performance from schools that are recieveing more federal money than ever, right) and more. <br />This isn't a single issue election. What about the out of control despotic branch, the juditial branch that chooses to legislate from the bench?<br /><br />The "status quoe"? Am I happy about Bush's spending? Heck no! Am I happy about medicare? Heck no! Am I happy that he doesn't have the sack to stand up and say "Social Sectary is a failed idea that is unconstitutional and must be disbanneded!" Heck no!<br /><br />The government has no business and no constitutional authority to guarantee anything outside of the Bill of Rights. Income tax, Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, Well Fair, et al are unconstitutional, Marxist extreamist crap that are forced on Americans and are crippling this country by strangling our economy and enslaving us all. I'm just hoping for a more free, more self reliant, more constitutional, and less Marxist America. I'm real sorry if you don't want the same.

 

[Bassy]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

I'm so glad to see you here, Mrs. Soulwinner. That makes 3 women here now. You,Ladyfish and me. I'm glad you're here.<br /> And as to this thread, just as I thought. Go President Bush! 7 more days and I won't have to hear another word about JFK. I've been tired of him from the beginning. I wonder if he'll ever tell us what he will do. Doubt it.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

Soul, I do agree with the concept of what you are saying, If I was told to choose a side I would choose Rep over Dem as a party, I just felt like it was yet another attempt to push the dem party into the sewer with a nasty Rep twist. My whole gripe with what has been happening all around the country is how nasty this race has become. It has caused perfectly rational and intelligent people to say and do things that fly in the face of reason, just so they don't feel like they may be supporting something that may be bad. I'm not going to argue the economy because it is all a matter of perspective. Those who are living paycheck to paycheck have different feelings on where the country stands economicaly than does someone who just sprung for a new H2.<br /><br />Some would say I am obsessed with fuel prices, and that is because I truely believe it will economically cripple this country down the road. My job depends on fuel. I have not recieved the sort of pay increases I should over the last few years because our fuel costs have doubled. We cannot just raise prices to cover it, we would lose more customers that way, its beter to just keep the prices where they are. That means the boss makes less money, and when he makes less money, we make less money. If I want to buy something, I have to ask myself will that purchase cut into my fuel budget, and I skip that purchase. Our economy is not improving just because someone on TV is saying it is. I see the economical downward spiral all around me. I have had customers go from several services to their house a year down to one or two, and these are people that do have a bit of money. Less than 1% of our customers are low to lower-middle class. They have to put food on their tables. The spiral is happening slower in some areas than another, but it is happening. Anyone who does not see it is blind or does not care. The only reason the economy is even doing as well as it is now is not because we are earning more money, it is because we are going into more debt. Poeple are buying on credit now instead of cash. Everyone is in debt up to their eyebrows. Well, that needs to be paid for, and with the same or less pay, people are ending up going bankrupt. This is our economy, anyone still thing it is improving?<br /><br />BTW Bassy, JFK has always said what he will do, just like the prez has always said what he will do. It is easy to find fault in someone if you close you mind off to what they are saying. It is unfortunate because if people even vaguely paid attention and actually listened to both candidates, they would have understood that they both have made compelling cases for why they should lead the country. There has been an awful, horrible lack of objectivity this election. People choose their side, their mind closes off, and that is that. Being able to see all sides and choose accordingly is the only intelligent way to go about this. Anything less and we may as well be back in the stone ages.....

 

[samagee]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

JasonJ<br /><br />Claim that the Republicians are using scare tactics all you want. It still doesn't make it true.

 

[spratt]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

I, for one, have not seen or heard (and I hate to defile President Kennedy's initials) "JFK" provide ANYthing that would take this country up or out of it's present problems. He has proven his ability to be a liar, a cheat, a thief....and I am not saying Bush is an angel either. Politicians are, de facto, criminals and liars. Not but maybe one peg up from a lawyer, or a used car salesman. But all these people out shouting from the housetop that it is time for a change, well, for God's sake, I hope you don't get that change via a Kerry election. I pity this country if he makes it. I pity my family, and yours, if he is elected.

 

[hayhauler]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

Well, on both of them I found myself more in agreement with Mr. Bush. This came as no surprise to me, of course. In fact on the one Mrs. SW offered I just had to quit, I know the planks in both their platforms, and I'm pro-Bush, so I'm probably not objective on the test.

 

[spratt]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

Yeah, know what ya mean...

 

[cbnoodles]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

15-2 Bush. The only surprise for me was that I actually chose 2 things on which I agreed with Kerry.<br /><br />PLEASE EVERYBODY: DON'T USE THE LATE JOHN KENNEDY'S INITIALS WHEN REFERRING TO KERRY! HE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AN ANGEL, BUT THE REAL JFK DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE ASSOCIATED IN ANY WAY WITH KERRY OTHER THAN HIS POLITICAL PARTY.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

Sam, I don't think that's what Jason is saying. I see where he is coming from, but I do not share his views. I am coming from a standpoint of minoring in economics in college, and I even taught some economics. I love the subject and understand it very well, and from my standpoint Bush is doing a wonderful job of bringing an injured economy back up. I will think about it and post more later when I can clearly answere Jason's concerns.

 

[Mrs Soulwinner]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

Thanks Bassy! remember....3 women against 50,000+ men, we can handle it!! how do I know.....I've given birth and i don't think it gets much worse than that!!<br /><br />As far as this political post...no thanks! I get enough politics here at the house to choke a 'donkey'......

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Who would you really vote for?

Soul, my better half has a degree in economics, we have discussed this many times. Her beliefs come from her educaton in the field, but she also can see that numbers and reality do not necessarily match. The numbers do look decent, I agree with that, but I still stand by what I said. Bushes technique of recovering the economy isn't a bad one on the surface, but reality and long term effect are not being considered when looking at the big picture. Credit card debt is at an all time high. Home ownership is up, which is a good thing, but it is still debt. Its not like everyone went out and paid cash on those homes. The lowered interest rates drove spending, but what happens when the rates go back up, and they will go back up. Now you have people who bought with all that credit and will then have to pay more with interest. Not everyone got locked in rates, most credit card interest rates fluctuate, that is the reality. So, you have the majority of our country at the same wage they were a few years ago, they have increased debt, their cost of living is going up, so just how do you think the economy will stay like it is? It is not physically possible. I am not naive enough to think that Kerry will wave a magic wand and make it all better, or that Bush can make it all better. The key is how decisions are made from here out. Do we keep going on a course of action that is hurting our country, or do we take an alternative path. Heck, I don't know what will happen over the next few years, all I know is what has already happened.<br /><br />I am thinking that an agreement to disagree is the best bet when it comes to this political season. Clearly, no one person or party is right. My better half and I disagree a lot on this, but we refuse to let it come between us, and I feel the same should be done on this board, as well as the rest of the country. It isn't worth it, I promise.