Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

[skydiveD30571]

2007 VP SX-A drive

Removed the drive yesterday to check alignment, grease the splines, and make sure the u-joint bellows were dry. Well, they weren't. In fact they had a very large puddle of greasy cloudy standing water. :facepalm:

I pulled the drive earlier this year (end of June) to chase down a ticking noise. I learned that it was the metal coil wire inside the originally-installed u-joint bellows so I replaced it with new OEM parts. Being basically the same as an SX drive I followed Don's advice and did it without pulling the pivot housing (Removed drive, water tube, and exhaust bellows to make room). I would have put money on the fact that I did it right, it was straightforward and seemed easy. I made sure the clamp was nice and tight and at the 2 oclock position to not limit drive movement or puncture anything. I made sure the lip was secure around the whole diameter of the bellows on the pivot housing. Well, all that water had to come in from somewhere. (water was removed before pictures were taken)

First question: Does water get into the blue outlined area here? It seems like the drive would have to be seamlessly flat with the pivot housing or water would get in there. If thats normal, is it the tapered edge of the pinion bearing housing that keeps water out of the u-joint bellows? I also noticed that the bellows lip has 4 indents in it now, that weren't in the original bellows (red arrow). It seems like these were caused from the corners of the bearing housing in the second picture (also red arrow). If water can get around the bearing housing, could it have made it thru those indentions? Why are they there now and never have been before?


I also took this picture to show the u-joints. With the amount of water in the bellows I'm not surprised to see some rust, but there's not much and I spent a long time playing with the u-joints and they move as perfectly as they ever have in every axis with no grinding or play whatsoever. They are the sealed non-serviceable type, so I'm wondering if it's just a little surface rust. Being that I never heard or noticed a problem on the water (and still don't) and that replacing them means replacing the whole driveshaft, I think I may keep them if/until a problem arises. Unless it's just a horrible idea. The gimbal bearing, although still smooth with no grinding, takes more force to turn than it did earlier this summer so I imagine it will need replaced. I don't believe it can be greased either.


As for the other side of where the bellows attaches, it is perfectly flush all the way around (blue arrows) except for the little bump at the top (red arrow). Examining with a light and fingers I couldn't feel or see any way water could intrude there. Anybody have comments on that? I'm guessing I need to take the bellows off and examine it anyways but I would be surprised if it had a hole already. But you never know.


So, anyone have any guesses where a good liter or so of water could intrude? Also, I see no signs of water intrusion inboard of the gimbal. Drive shaft splines and coupler splines all have clean water-free grease. Any help would be great. Thanks as always!

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

Removed bellows last night and they are in great shape with no cuts or holes. So something wasn't sealed somewhere. Any ideas anyone?

 

[Don S]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

First question: Does water get into the blue outlined area here? It seems like the drive would have to be seamlessly flat with the pivot housing or water would get in there. If thats normal, is it the tapered edge of the pinion bearing housing that keeps water out of the u-joint bellows?

Yes, that area does get water in it. The drive seals up against the bellows to seal water out of the bellows.
Volvo recommends putting grease on the nose cone of the drive so it slides into place without pushing the bellows out of place.
That may or may not be the cause of your water problem. I would replace the bellows with a new OEM bellows just to make sure.

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

I ordered a new one yesterday just in case. Maybe while putting the drive on it caught the bellows lip and pushed it out of place just enough. Either way, I apparently screwed this up last time so I want to figure out what I did wrong before I try it again.

In that last picture, does that little space look like it could leak? I felt around the outside where the clamp ring sits and it was very tight and felt uniform all the way around.

I think I will remove the pivot housing and/or gimbal ring this time to make sure I get the bellows on right. Is there a way to remove the pivot pins without the special tool? If not, it looks like I just need pliers and a 10mm allen wrench to get the gimbal ring out of the way.

 

[muc]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

I don’t think you caught the lip when installing the drive because the way lip is deformed looks normal in your first picture. By the way --- nice pictures!
I think it might have been leaking at the red arrow in the third picture.
My guess is that when you get that bellows off you will see that the internal rib (that extra bump that goes all the way around the inside where the hose clamp presses) will be deformed because it wasn’t all the way into the groove.
Might want to inspect your u-joints. Most times if water in the bellows causes trouble with the gimbal bearing it will also cause trouble with the u-joints. Unfortunately the only way to inspect them is to disassemble them.
Don’t know the size of allen wrench you need but I thinks it’s American.

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

Thanks muc. Those are pictures from my new Galaxy S3...not bad for a phone camera! Although I could get the bellows on without removing the pivot housing, it was a pain in the butt the get my hands and tools in there, and since I obviously messed it up I plan on pulling off the pivot housing this time to make sure everything goes on good. The service manual calls for special tool 3849647 to get the pivot pins out. Do you or anyone else know if this tool is required or if theres another way to do it?

 

[muc]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

I was wrong on the American --- was thinking about older transoms.

Don’t think you need to mess with the pivot hsg. Just pull the gimbal ring and pivot hsg. will come with it.

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

I was looking at where the bellows clamps on, and noticed the rib and groove you mentioned. I never noticed that before, so I think its a good assumption that the rib was not fully in the groove (where the bump in the picture is). Funny how I have the service manuals and seem to always read right over the the really important sentences: "There is an internal rib that must engage a corresponding groove around opening's surface."

According to the manual, to remove the gimbal ring I just need a 10mm allen and pliers for the lower steering pivot pin. I just want to move it out of the way a little, so I don't think its necessary to remove the trim cylinders but correct me if I'm wrong. I got the gimbal bearing pulled friday night. The 3-jaw puller I rented from the local auto store did not work. The cone was too small to tighten on the jaw once it was inside the bearing so I had to rig up a cheap 2-jaw puller with electrical tape but it came out with a handful of whacks. I'm glad I did, it turns ok still but there was water all over it and I'm sure sitting all winter would have caused a problem. Now to press in the new one.

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)



Finally got the old grease seal and bearing pulled, and the new seal and bearing pressed in. The old gimbal bearing came out with a couple whacks but the seal literally needed cut apart with channel locks because it would not budge. We dropped the gimbal ring to get better access for this, which gave us room to insure the new bellows went on right. In the attached picture of the old bellows, it was not sitting flush between the yellow lines and I'm thinking it may have leaked in there. Now, it sits perfectly flush all the way around. Got the gimbal ring back on and the drive also. I guess I will have to wait till May to splash it, then pull the drive again to make sure its not leaking. Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[jimi]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

I had water in my bellows this year and I'm pretty sure it was caused by the bellows bunching the same way as it is in your picture.


When I took it apart I found my (ex) mechanic had over tightened it and busted the clamp. Maybe he panicked when he saw it bunching up and thought tigher would be better. I'll never know...


When I installed the new bellows it started to bunch up again. A bit of soapy water between the band clamp and the outer surface of the bellows made an amazing difference.

 

[sqbtr]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

This isn't a pic of a volvo drive bellows but is representative of the type of clamps that should be used. No slots for the rubber to get caught up in.

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

Jimi if you notice in my picture I had that same gap in the bellows (red box). This time around, with a new bellows and clamp, I got it on basically flush all the way around. I feel confident now that it was leaking there, and hopefully won't again. Thanks!

 

[Don S]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

If you tighten the clamp tight enough to cause the bellows to "Bunch up" then you are tightening it way to much.
I've installed hundreds of bellows and never had that problem.
Must happen a lot though, Volvo saw fit to send out a service bulletin on it.

View attachment 44-1-51 Bellows Clamp Torque.pdf

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

I know this is my old thread, but I wanted to confirm the problem for future readers. Pulled my drive for yearly maintenance and the u-joint bellows was dry as a bone. Seems like that gap Jimi and I were referring to was the culprit, and it was because of what Don mentioned...tightening the clamp too much (Muc also thought this was the case).

Lesson here: pay close attention to the service bulletin Don posted, and make sure the bellows is secured correctly.

 

[dypcdiver]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

Good when I started reading I thought NOT again but now I am happy you have had a "dry" season

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: Where did all that water get into my bellows from? (pictures)

Glad I caught this...next few days I'm replacing my exhaust and u-joint bellows...I read the bulletin and service manual and both mention "Not over-tightening"! I bought OEM's as I heard there's been some issues with the aftermarket ones? Anyway, great advice and pictorial! I should mention to not forgetting to use grease on the splines, oil on the 'o' rings on the shaft and a little grease on the drive (interior bellow side).

~Brett