When will we learn? Company pension plans

[Boomyal]

I just read an article about Delphi Corporation, the nation's largest auto supplier, filing for bankruptcy. One of the issues at hand are the pension benefits.<br />Now, as ya'll know, I am not a Corporation basher but it seems that American Corporations have taken their lessons from Social Security, an extreme ponzi scheme. That is basically unfunded promises to pay future retirees from future revenues. <br /><br />I think there should be a law that any promised pension benefits should be paid for and set aside in real time, as an immediate cost of employment. If the company cannot afford to set aside sufficient funds, as the employee accrues retirement time, then the company should not be allowed to promise retirement pay. IMHO, that should also include governments.<br /><br /><br />What say all ye sage men??

 

[roscoe]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/Newsroom/fsbankruptcy.html <br /><br />Retirement Plans<br /><br />Workers in bankruptcy situations face two important issues when it comes to their retirement benefits: access to pension benefits and the continued safety of their pension assets. Generally, your pension assets should not be at risk when a business declares bankruptcy, because ERISA requires that promised pension benefits be adequately funded and that pension monies be kept separate from an employer’s business assets and held in trust or invested in an insurance contract. Thus, if an employer declares bankruptcy, the retirement funds should be secure from the company’s creditors. In addition, plan fiduciaries must comply with the ERISA that provisions prohibit the mismanagement and abuse of plan assets. If contributions to a plan have been withheld from your pay, you may want to confirm that the amounts deducted have been forwarded to the plan’s trust or insurance contract.<br /><br />In addition, some pension benefits may be insured by the Federal Government. Traditional plans (defined benefit plans) are protected by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), a Federal Government corporation. If a plan is terminated because an employer has financial difficulty and cannot fund the plan, and the plan does not have enough money to pay the promised benefits, the PBGC will assume responsibility for the plan. The PBGC pays benefits after termination up to a certain maximum guaranteed amount. On the other hand, defined contribution plans, such as 401(k) plans, are not insured by the PBGC.<br /><br />In the event the pension plan is terminated, the plan must vest your accrued benefit 100 percent. This means that the plan owes you all the pension benefits that you have earned so far, even benefits you would have lost if you had voluntarily left your employment. ERISA does not require that pension benefits be paid out before normal retirement age, usually age 65. Your plan may provide for distribution sooner than this. Some plans require participants to reach a certain age before benefits will be distributed, and some require the participant to have been separated from employment for a specified period of time. You should review the summary plan description for the plan rules regarding payment of benefits. Also remember that taking a distribution of pension benefits before retirement may have important tax consequences. You may need to consult with a tax advisor before accepting the distributio

 

[wildbill59]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

My pension plan has 30 billion in liabilities and 15 billion in assets. Anybody see a problem?<br />The crooks that control it blame the stock slide in 2000-2001 for their problems.<br /><br />You've only seen the start of problems like this. My plan "trustee's" think the gubbermint should bail their sorry arses out of the hole they've dug for themselves.

 

[PW2]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

This is indeed a serious problem.<br /><br />And the government will indeed bail them out. And guess who pays that bill?<br /><br />And it probably was the stock slide that brought the problems to the forefront. That's how insurance companies make money. They take your premiums, invest those premiums, and hope the investment returns will pay all the claims, and leave them a profit.<br /><br />A friend in the industry tells me that is the real reason for the increase in malpractice rates for doctors. Insurance companies trying to recoup bad investment decisions. It's always easy to blame lawyers and courts but the reality is judgements are statistically no higher now than they have ever been.<br /><br />I don't have a solution to this, but it is potentially a very serious problem.

 

[crab bait]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

i've got a good pension package.. 'it's real-time' an hard money.. <br /><br />for every hour worked,, 7 bucs goes into it.. split down the middle,, half into a no touch pension.. the other half into a annuity plan.. 10 M-funds ,,1 money market to choose from an can move around daily..<br /><br />the 7 bucs is a percentage of our pay.. so if working OT ( 1 1/2 or double time ) that become OT also.. <br /><br />58 an skate..

 

[rolmops]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

Crab bait,that makes me wonder,are you a union man?

 

[jimonica]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

You hit the nail on the PW2! <br />As for Social Security, it running a surplus and will continue to run surpluses unil the mid to late teens. After that the goverment will have to start paying back the money it borrowed from the SS trust fund. SS will continue to be solvent until the 40s or 50s, so long as the government fulfills its obligation and pays back the money it borrowed. I don't see an immediate problem, unless the government refuses to pay.<br />The information that Roscoe sent over from the goverment website sounds like everyones pensions will be safe. But from what I've seen when a company files for bankruptcy they will go to the courts and ask to be relieved from their obligation to their pensioners, which more times than not the courts grant the corporation their wishes. <br />Its kind of funny if you or I file BK, with the new bankruptcy bill the credit card companies have new protections and now have the right to put a lien on our homes, but try to put a lien <br />on the corporation to get the money they owe you. It just goes to show who has the real power in this country and who the politicians really work for.

 

[crab bait]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

IBEW

 

[rolmops]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

CSEA

 

[wildbill59]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

Jimmy Hoffa Jr. controls mine. In Jimmy we Trust

 

[FLATHEAD]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

I have no worries about my pension. Pa. state employees. 27 billion in assets. It ranks a fully funded status. One of the top public pension plans in the country. This did not happen by luck. They make very good investments.

 

[wildbill59]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

Our state teachers union has one of the best packages in the country. One of the reasons we are in the top 5 in the nation for tax hell.

 

[12Footer]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

I too, think it should be against the law to claim any unpaid deposits as paid deposits. This goes for bank accounts, senate check cashing funds, FEMA, Socialistic security, and so-called "{pension plans".<br />Having werked for a municipality, all funds were paid and invested in real capital.<br />As long as the market returns are greater than zero, I'll get what was promised.<br />As for other companies who have participated in legal ponzi schemes to "fund" their employee pension plans, it should be against the law to claim bubble funds in the first place.

 

[DJ]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

American Companies depended on the value of the corporations (stock, plus other investments) to keep them whole. Right or wrong, that was an accepted business case. The pundits that now claim it was foolish, fifteen years ago applauded it.<br /><br />Since we, as consumers, despise American products, we've added to the situation.<br /><br />The "new" American company, or transplant, has NO intention of anyone reaching retirement age, under their plan. They'll "machine gun" you long before you can reach the promise.<br /><br />We got what we asked for.

 

[txswinner]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

Management teams have become a band of thieves protected by the corporate vail. It is time for our government to step forward and start busting them up before we become a corp. socialized society. These people have no committment to working for a living, they simply leach off the company and profits of the working people.<br /><br />Yes, maybe unions do serve a good purpose.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

Why the heck would anyone want a pension plan?????<br /><br />All it is is deferred salary. With companies changing and going belly up, I dont want to have to rely on them to pay me in the future. I want it now, and let me invest it how I want to.<br /><br />Ken

 

[DJ]

Re: When will we learn? Company pension plans

txswinner wrote: <br /><br />

Management teams have become a band of thieves protected by the corporate vail. It is time for our government to step forward and start busting them up before we become a corp. socialized society. These people have no committment to working for a living, they simply leach off the company and profits of the working people.<br />

It's funny how we only deem "American" companies as a band of theives. Oh, how shallow our thinking. We sink into the depths of socialism, as we speak. Misery for all. Our enemies, of our past, are winning and we don't care.<br /><br />For those that have paid into a retirement plan. I stress, PAID into, over and above, Company contributions, this is unsettling. When these go belly up, so does THE ENTIRE American economy.<br /><br />I knew, 20 years ago, that Social Security was the biggest Ponzi Scheme ever invented, by a Democrat, by the way. That's why I PAID into a plan. Since, I have diversified into real estate. But, I still am losing a BUNDLE. <br /><br />Ken wrote:<br /><br />

Why the heck would anyone want a pension plan?????<br />

Why? Because I do not want to have to depend on YOU to support me. Social Security is a bust, neither you or I, will ever see one penny. Who's going to provide YOUR income, when you retire? <br /><br />Also, because you will not promote supporting me. You may promote my death, over a retirement.<br /><br />In other words, I do not trust the "goodwill" of my fellow citizens. When it comes to money, people will kill.