When It ALL Goes South

[OBJ]

These are a few pics of the Reg/Rec, Power Pack and Engine harness from a 94' 200 Rude. Ain't pretty. Stator isn't off yet put looks like it melted down also. So far, nothing forward of the Regulator is hurt. Looks like a real good ground kicked in. Customer says the battery cable was VERY warm.....I can imagine!! Hope I do this right.....8)

 

[itstippy]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

I don't think that can be repaired with black vinyl electrical tape. A close examination of the pics shows that several wires are damaged and perhaps even broken. See the discoloration in the center of pic #2? That component may have overheated at some point and could be unusable. Has this motor been exposed to a flamethrower or manganese-based incindiary grenades in the past?

 

[OBJ]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

ROFLMAO!!!!!d

Forgot to mention......the battery's dead.:%

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

OBJ,

I see a lot of things here,and I'm glad those pictures came from your shop not mine.Gonna be scary first time you reconnect the battery,crank her,and start her.And I mean all 3 steps.

The hint maybe in the warm battery.Was it the battery itself,or just one of the terminals?At least remove the battery and charge it up.If it doesn't take a charge,maybe a bad battery caused it.
Same thing if it won't load test.Not sure where else I'd go.

Somehow reverse polarity hits my feeble mind.Could the batt terminals have been reattached (wrong) while it was running?This also opens ....wrong wiring on battery switch and a whole lot more.Once had a customer bring his boat in after charging his own battery.He charged it backwards.Positive was negative,and vice versa.

Somewhere OMC put out a SB on the regulators (not sure about model or year,but water cooled) that they changed the wiring on the regulators,but I never saw anywhere near that much damage.

Keep us posted,sorry if it's a long post.Sometimes I think while typing.

DHP

 

[OBJ]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

Here's the really weird thing DHP.....the customer was fishing a two day tourney....first day the engine ran with out as much as a couph.

Second day, he launched and was setting at the dock with the engine running waiting on his partner when someone on the dock yelled at him that there was black smoke coming from the engine hood.

He said he shut down right now and pulled the batter cable...ground side....which he said was warm. Pulled the hood and found the charge wire to the starter solenoid burned in half. He finished out the day on the trolling motor.

Haven't pulled the battery yet but the battery tester said dead.

I'll keep the thread alive and post what we find.

And yes.....those three steps are gonna be scary.

EDIT: (I'm thinking while I'm typing to but not fast enough d ) I took some prelim readings on the stator which didn't even come close to specs and even the timer base readings were in the toilet!!

 

[Silvertip]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

In order for damage like this to occur, the battery would not be the culprit unless you blamed it for supplying the current that did the damage. Sort of like blaming the bucket because the water in it got you wet. The charge wire has a fuse in it that should have blown if the short was on the engine side of it. So -- the first check is to find the fuse and see if its blown (assuming it was not turned into a puddle of black plastic). If its not, the short was prior to the fuse and that doesn't leave a very long run of wire. So, was a verrrrry large fuse inadvertently installed? Next, even with the engine off, a rectifier diode breakdown can draw current which can find its way through the stator overheating it causing a meltdown. A shorted regulator can also cause the stator to output at full capacity causing it to overheat and meltdown. I would suspect though that smoke at idle meant the rectifier went south and the battery just dumped its load through wires way to small to handle that current. Again -- the fuse should have prevented this so the question is -- why didn't it. That should be the subject of the initial investigation.

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

Yeah,I think you'll be replacing everything electrical under the hood except maybe the starter and fuel enrichment valve.

But if the charge lead burned out going to the solenoid (this is the red lead that feeds the regulator ? ) ,I'd feel safe in feeling the problem is in the charge system.And you'll be replacing all that.Probably not a battery issue.

DHP

 

[OBJ]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

The fuse going forward to the ignition switch is good....

I don't feel it's a battery issue either since the rig ran well the day before but we will check it just to be sure. The wire that burned was the Rec/Reg output lead to charge the battery. It's not fused.

I do think it's a failure of the Reg/Rec wether a diode went to ground or something else in the Reg/Rec going to ground....probably never really know with the thing burned so bad. But very through check out will be done be for even the battery is connected.

On the bright side.....we have found a new way to remove potting material......dd (ok....so it wasn't the best joke in the world)

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

I have read worse jokes

maybe back in the 50's,when you could go out and get 'potted'.

DHP

 

[ezeke]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

May not be the same issue, but my nephew's motor did pretty much the same thing when the rectifier went bad.

Cooling water was not reaching the rectifier.

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

Good point, ezeke.

I think this was an electrical short,but during a severe overheat,the wires do about the same thing.

DHP

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

I'd suspect that this engine had a tachometer problem for a time? This usually indicates that the water cooled voltage regulator/rectifier is failing and should be replaced before running the engine again. The following is taken from my database which has been inserted here often. Note the last sentence.

(Testing Tachometer With Water Cooled Regulator/Rectifier)
(J. Reeves)

A quick check is to simply plug in a another new tachometer as a piece of test equipment. If the new tach works properly and the old tach didn't, obviously the old tach is faulty.... but usually boaters don't carry around a spare tach (see below).

A faulty rectifier wouldn't damage the tachometer, the tachometer simply wouldn't work. This is due to the fact that the tachometer operates off of the charging system and the rectifier converts AC voltage to DC voltage, enabling the charging system. A faulty rectifier disables the charging system, and the tachometer simply doesn't register.

However.... those watercooled regulator/rectifiers that are used on the 35amp charging systems (and some others) bring into play a different type problem, and as you've probably found out, they are really a pain to troubleshoot via the proper procedure. There's an easier way.

The tachometer sending/receiving setup operates off of the gray wire at the tachometer. That same gray wire exists at the engine wiring harness which is connected to the engine electrical terminal strip. You'll see that there is a gray wire leading from the regulator/rectifier to that terminal strip, and that there is another gray wire attached to it. That other gray wire is the wire leading to the tachometer which is the one you're looking for.

Remove that gray wire that leads to the tachometer. Now, find the two (2) yellow wires leading from the stator to that terminal strip. Hopefully one of them is either yellow/gray or is connected to a yellow/gray wire at the terminal strip. If so, connect the gray wire you removed previously to that yellow/gray terminal. Start the engine and check the tachometers operation, and if the tachometer operates as it should, then the regulator/rectifier is faulty and will require replacing. If the tachometer is still faulty, replace the tachometer.

If neither of the yellow wires from the stator is yellow/gray, and neither is attached to a yellow/gray wire, then attach that gray tachometer wire to either yellow stator wire, then the other yellow wire, checking the tachometer operation on both connections.

I've found this method to be a quick and efficent way of finding out which component is faulty.... the tachometer or the regulator/rectifier. It sounds drawn out but really only takes a very short time to run through. If the water cooled regulator/rectifier proves to be faulty, don't put off replacing it as they have been known to catch on fire with disasterous consequences.

 

[OBJ]

Re: When It ALL Goes South

Good input Joe....the customer never mentioned if the tach was working or not and I never thought to ask.....but will.

And I'll also ask if he noticed that the tell tale was peeing or not which may or may not help if he got air bound under the regulator....but we'll ask.

Thanks to all for good timely advice.