What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

[capt_neo]

(If you're not interested in the the soapy version of this story, ya may want to jump down a few paragraphs)

So I've been a lurker on this site for some time. (A land lubber's gotta dream and all that) . . . Anyway, I'd been out of boating for a good ten years or so (came close in '05 on a really sweet deal on a Carver Riviera but the Mrs. asked if I wanted a new 'cycle instead . . . guess she wasn't ready at the the time) when another sweet deal came my way and I couldn't refuse. In fact, this time my wonderful bride went along with me. So off we go to the banker, the insurance man, the harbor master, and everything lines up like you dream about. Lo and behold I (we) are the very proud owners of a brand new '09 Bayliner 340 Cruiser (350 Mags w/ Bravo III & an Axius Drive system - can you say sweet!). This is back in May.

Due to work, vacation already planned, delivery schedules, yada, yada, yada, its mid June. I am on the shores of the Atlantic (Carolina Beach / Fort Fisher, NC) and my back locks up tighter than Master could ever dream of. Okay, man up and all that stuff and I finish out the camping trip and head home with the family. Had a couple of days in the office planned and then (yeah!) take delivery of the new vessel before the crazy holiday weekend.

It's now Thursday, before the Friday before the Saturday of delivery. . . the clocks ticking, I am losing sleep fantasizing about all of the wonderful weekends that lay ahead for the bride, family, and I (and some without the family!) Last part of the day and - wham! - I am brought down to my knees with a back seizure that was no like no other. Needless to say, the wife arrives, brings me home and I am getting worse (WORSE!). I coincidentally had an appointment the following week with the doc to figure out what caused the back to lock up in the first place. So the Admiral called the surgeons office and he says to get my arse in there ASAP. I end up leaving with an epidural, a shot in the arse for some immediate relief, and some hydrocodone...

Next morning (I'd called in sick), I get up late and am feeling pretty good (not like the day before at least). Heck (I think), I can make myself a cup of coffee and so off I stroll in to the kitchen. Get the java juice brewing when (wham) down to the floor I go in more pain than the day before (for you men out there that never cry when you get a boo-boo - that was me. Not this time. I was bawling like someone stole my favorite teddy and I was 4 years old!) Somehow managed to call the wife who called the 911 rescue'ers. Off to the ER go I and end up with a shot of morphine . . .

So here's the short version.

I have now been in bed (24/7) for the last 2 weeks under doctors orders to allow this herniated discs reduce their swelling. Two are pusing outward and one is pushing in on the spinal cord. The doctor's plan is to have me spend an undetermined amount of time off my feet (he said think 4 weeks) and then we can figure out how to treat this non-surgically. It would likely require some minimal surgery to deal with the herniated discs but not fusing any vertebrae. Or so he says.

I've had back problems on and off through my 30s and 40s. Probably genetic disease. Never went to a spine doctor expect once (had some fractured vertebrae from a fall while sheep hunting in AK). I'd prefer to go under the knife and just get this over with (fusing L4-L5 with a BMP /tungsten procedure). The new Admiral is completely against it.

I have a new boat that I refuse to allow to be moved to the water until I can accept her appropriately (they're being pretty good about that at the dealership and the harbor master could care less; the slip is paid for for the year. It is just torquing the you know what out of me right now paying the monthlies on this and I am going no where fast).

So with all of the educated, knowledgable, and likely "back"-experienced members here at Iboats, I thought I'd ask - any of you readers out there have any experience with your back that your willing to share some experiences with. First caveat is - I am not looking for free medical advice so don't anyone get their shorts in a knot about liability, etc. This is not a counseling session, just a buddy looking to talk about a milestone in life that we're likely all destined to experience at some point. So as I drink my kool-aid and you sip on your beverage of choice, what say you . . .?

Oh yeah, I am still dreaming. . . .it may be 100 degrees outside but darn it, I've been waiting ten years for this day

 

[stanfd]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Soryy to hear about the back pain. Before you jump to have the doc cut you open I'd like to tell you about my wife. I'm not saying that surgery would be the wrong thing to do in your case just make sure you have gotten a few opinions. My wife was injured at work about 18 months ago. She was told she had to have surgery to repair the herniated discs. Well she had a microdiscectomy. All seemed weel for a couple of weeks then the pain returned. Back to the surgeon and low and behold she has reherniated the discs and they decide to do surgery again. Agin she weels somewhat better after a few weeks of recoup, and then a couple of months later...pain again. Back to surgeon, xrays, MRIs. Now they tell her that she has so much scar tissure from the previous surgeries that it is putting pressure on her nerves causing the pain. She could have them go back in and do surgery again but the scar tissue will return and will probably be worse. Then this would have to be repeated every few years. She is in her 20s and will now have to live with the pain in her back for the rest of her life. She is on many drugs for the pain and does physical therapy to help. But she does now regret having the surgery the first time. Good luck!!!!!!! And don't worry you'll be on the boat soon enough. We are still able to enjoy ours, she may be a little sorer afterwards but to her the enjoyment of being on the water makes up for it.

 

[rjlipscomb]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Man I feel for you,
My back went out 3 months ago hiking in the hills surrounding Vegas. It grew into spasms that have forced me to my knees when trying to stand up. I finally broke down and went to the doctor last week. He gave me Flexeril, Naproxen, and Hydrocodone. I haven't taken the Hydro yet. The doctor said to rest my back, do stretches twice a day and stay away from the computer (bad back position) and then see him in 2 weeks.
It hurts when boating, bumpy ride over wakes or waves. Though once in the water its like being in heaven.
Can't say what's wrong except for the spasms.

 

[gonefishie]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Just a thought if it hasn't cross your mind already. You hear about professional atheletes having surgery to remove hernitated disc all the times and they get to play afterward. If you can afford it, go to those miracle docs.

 

[eastont]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Just to put mt 2 cents in here. I have had 3 bulged/herniated/ruptured what ever you want to call them since the year 2000. I chased all around looking for various cures/procedures that would relieve me of this awful/constant/gnawing/unbearable....blah, blah, blah pain.
I finally found a pain management specialist. What a God send. With all the reports from all the specialists, MRI's. Cat-Scans, X-Rays he discussed it with me, my GP and with the specialists (I had to send releases to each doctor). He then came up with a plan of attack.
Between him and my GP I now can at least enjoy my boat and life is better to some extent. But if you can stay off the operating table. My belief is that something might be damaged or broken, but if you remove it it can't do any good what so ever. Too many people I met at various clinics said they had surgery and were worse after.

 

[tomdinwv]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Man, I feel for you. I have had back problems off and on all my life. It finally got so bad I Had to do something about it. Saw my doc and he sent me to a pain specialist. My L4 vertabrae was slightly deformed and I have degenerative disc disease. Had 3 series of cortizone shots (6 shots per series under live x-ray. Needles clear into three seperate discs). That was a bad experience. I could feel everything and man did it HURT! These procedures did no good. On to the consult with the surgeon. He said he could fuse my L4 and L5 discs and stop the movement that was causing my problems. He told me up front that it was a 50/50 shot at relieving my pain. I opted to go ahead and have the surgery. Spent 8 hours in surgery. Got out at 5pm and they had me up and walking at midnight that night. Now that was PAIN! Went back to work 8 weeks later (I was a diesel mechanic) and it was way to soon in my opinion. I lasted about 6 months at work thanks to the guys I worked with taking up the slack. Now I am so bad off I can't work. I don't blame the surgeon, he told me the odds up front. Some people have had the same procedure I had (sounds like the same thing you are considering) and came out better than before. Unfortunatly I was not so lucky. You may want to ask your doc about another option. They can install a pump that can inject pain medication directly on the area that is causing you problems. It kind of deadens the nerves and relieves the pain. I have heard good things about this procedure but don't know exactly how it works or if there is any long term effects etc... Good luck on whatever decision you make and I hope you can get better and get out there and enjoy the new boat soon.

 

[capt_neo]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Then this would have to be repeated every few years. She is in her 20s and will now have to live with the pain in her back for the rest of her life. She is on many drugs for the pain and does physical therapy to help. But she does now regret having the surgery the first time. Good luck!!!!!!! And don't worry you'll be on the boat soon enough. We are still able to enjoy ours, she may be a little sorer afterwards but to her the enjoyment of being on the water makes up for it.

Thanks for sharing Stanfd. I am truly sorry to hear of the situation your wife is in with the scarring and her other associated problems. And in her twenties no less.

You and the other gracious responses have certainly provided me with some more to think about (thanks rjlipscomb, gonefishie, eastont, and tomdinwv!)

The variety of problems that you don't hear about is truly amazing and also kind of sad - sad as in how many people are having to suffer with back problems. I don't know if it's me or a sign of the times or what, but it sure seems that there are more people now diagnosted with some pretty severe back conditions nowadays. I do not recall this being the case 20 or 30 years ago.

I am going to keep watch on this thread an see if there are any other words of wisdom (not to be callous or anything; I was thinking of maintaining an unofficial poll of sorts regarding the #'s who have had success and those whose experiences may not have turned out as good as hoped.)

[gonefishie] certainly had a very interesting thought - "You hear about professional atheletes having surgery to remove hernitated disc all the times and they get to play afterward. If you can afford it, go to those miracle docs."

Thanks again for all of your inputs and to those of you who are still having to deal with the pain that I think the devil himself dreamed up, I am sorry to hear of your continued frustration, agony, and constant reminder for the price some of us pay for the ability to walk upright (I am told by a veterinarian friend that the four-legged animals may get arthritis in their spines but you do not typically see herniated discs . . .

As Stanfd said, I hope that for all of us, the enjoyment of being on the water can make up for some of the discomfort, pain, and aggravation us back-painers are living with (as well as those that are providing the nursing - I sometimes think my Admiral is having just as hard time as me as she picks my my load around the house and everthing else I can't do for myself right now).

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

I have back surgery scheduled for 8/31. The neuro-surgeon that I wanted, couldn't do it any sooner. He's going to use a procedure where he places a gel between the vertebrae before scratching/freshening the bone surfaces. The gel has substances/medication in it to promote bone growth. He said he's been using this procedure for the last 5 years with very good results. The incisions are much smaller which allows for faster healing and recovery. We'll see.

 

[lowkee]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

It would likely require some minimal surgery to deal with the herniated discs but not fusing any vertebrae. Or so he says. The new Admiral is completely against it.

So with all of the educated, knowledgable, and likely "back"-experienced members here at Iboats, I thought I'd ask - any of you readers out there have any experience with your back that your willing to share some experiences with.

My wife had a ruptured and slipped disc 4-5 yrs back. She was barely able to stand, let alone live with it and have any kind of meaningful life. We went to a surgeon and he trimmed off the ruptured part, slid the other back in place and she has been perfectly fine since. Heck, she shingled a 300 sq/ft addition we built not long ago. Could you imagine ever doing that in the condition you are now?

Keep in mind, there are risks involved. My wife, for a few months (months!), had very little feeling in her feet. She described it as, the same feeling one gets when it falls asleep and just begins to wake up. She was laid up for just a couple of days; Able to walk, but not much. Nowadays, her right foot feels normal and her left foot is even more sensitive than before (which makes for great tickle torture sessions ). There are no remaining issues and we don't have to worry about taking it easy for the rest of our lives (we are early 30's, this happened ~5yrs ago).

Since you asked for a personal opinion, I'll give you this: There is risk involved in anything and some risks are too high, but this is a no-brainer. You are screwing yourself out of real life by not getting the surgery, as you will be limited without it, and even if things go wrong, you can't even get coffee right now, so you aren't risking much in the 'worse' department. Sure, it can paralyze you if all goes horribly wrong, but I can die stepping out my front door. Sometimes the reward (having a functional body) is worth nearly any risk.

I am not telling you to jump right into surgery, however. Try the physical therapist first. My wife tried it twice, but ended up feeling worse. We had the surgery shortly thereafter. It is always worth a try, though. They can sometimes get slipped discs to 'slip' back in without a single incision. If it doesn't work, hey, at least you tried. Your wife may be more willing to accept the surgery route if you try therapy first.

If you end up opting for the surgery, I can give you the name of the surgeon my wife used. I wouldn't think twice about using him again, and I'd fly to see him without a second thought. PM me if you are interested (He is located in Maine)

Too many people I met at various clinics said they had surgery and were worse after.

Asking people at a clinic is a little like asking about crime prevention inside a prison. If they were the people with good outcomes, they wouldn't be there.

I can tell you now, my wife hasn't been back there since a couple of months after the surgery, and when we were there, we had no idea if it went well or not (it takes time to heal from something like that), so we may have had bad things to say about it, too, and her surgery ended up working perfectly!

 

[j_martin]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Both my wife and I have had injuries that would have normally been the subject of surguries.

She slipped a disk in her neck. Chiropractor sent her to an orthopedic surgeon. As soon as it was discovered she was poor and uninsured, the surgeon simply stated she could not help. The Chiropractor treated it carefully with manipulation and light traction (cervical collar). She's fine now (years later)

I took a nasty fall on icy stairs and tore up my right shoulder. Same thing, the surgeon lost interest because of the finances, and told me, while I had about 3 inches of movement with extreme pain, that it is, after all, a 50 year old shoulder. He couldn't help. I did pay big bucks for an MRI, and found that all 3 bicep tendons had tears, and the rotor cuff had a small tear. Inflamation indicated that the capsule (pad) had been crushed and was freezing, or growing into the bone socket and ball.

A year of expert, and often painful chiropractic manipulation and exercises brought about almost perfect healing. I'm a telephone man, so I'm constantly driving a punch down tool with that arm with no problem.

The comonality for all this success is that the chiropractor we used was a sports medicine specialist.

If you can find such a chiropractor, I would bet he could offer a lot of help, without dangerous surgury.

I wish you all the best
John

 

[dooma_Flatchy]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Hey Capt,
Been there done that. I went through the same thing that you are going through.(well actually, still going through) I was changing the florescent light bulbs above our island in our kitchen standing in a chair that was more bent out of shape than I was at the moment stretching,leaning and tip-toeing to reach the far bulb, Chair broke, I land on my feet, Wife laughs I'm ticked at myself for even using the chair. That night I feel some tightness in my lumbar area nothing major, I took some Advil and went to bed. Three hours later I wake up hurting couldn't hardly get out of bed, I hobble to my man chair and finally get a little relief. Wife comes and checks on me and tells me to try to take a hot shower and she would rub some icy hot on me to try to loosen me up.

I lift right foot to step into the shower and it felt like I had been shot in the left buttock and like you I immediately fall to the floor unable to move and yes, I also had man tears(eye sweat) coming down. Naked, hurting and wife trying to help me up to put clothes on to go to hospital with her wanting to call my Dad or Brother to come help me out of the floor was not an option at the moment. I crawl ever so slowly to the tub and finally get to my feet but I was doing the quarter hunting walk from the bathroom to bedroom to get some clothes on. This was the time I needed to to have those rip off velcro man panties because I couldn't lift my foot to step into "regular" underwear.
What seems liked an eternity I got dressed and go to get in wife's car for the trip to the hospital she mentions at that very moment that she has no gas.

I said we will take mine. At that time I had a 98 Ford F150 4x4.
I couldn't get into the truck. Eye sweat starts flowing again finally pull myself into my truck and arrive at the hospital. Getting out was easier but a little more painful. Wife goes in gets wheel chair that Olive Oil from Popeye would have had a hard time getting in. I am now having burning pain in left leg/foot and the receptionist at the desk was wanting to know eye color length of toe nails and what not. When the Nurse was checking vitals she stated that my blood pressure was kind of high. (Ya think!!) Thank goodness it was a slow night. Dr came in the room with the nice curtain walls and Finally ordered me a shot of some of the nicest meds. ever created. After about 3 minutes I didn't care if you were poking me with a cattle prod. God what a relief. Wheeled down to the MRI and head spinning this huge woMAN got me on and off the MRI table and back to my nice curtain walled room.

Dr comes in and tells me I basically had one disc that hat ruptured and that pieces of the disc was floating and bouncing around on nerves in my spinal cord and actually had 2 other herniation's and that surgery was my only option for the one disc to remove the floaters.

Since then I have had 4 more Lumbar surgeries 2 cervical surgeries. My injury was because of an underlining condition and it was time it showed it ugly head. I need another surgery but I'm putting that off until I can't walk again. It seems like with each surgery it gets harder and harder to get over it.


When I was a kid I use to make fun of people in my condition and basically call them "fakers". I guess I'm getting my paybacks. LOL Now when I see someone doing the looking for quarter walk I feel sorry for them and I know what they are going through.

Some surgeries are needed and some aren't Trust your Dr. and If you don't, Do not hesitate to ask for a second opinion.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

An acquaintance of mine that does not have any health insurance uses one of those inversion tables. The type that you lay on and it flips up hanging you by your feet. He does this for 2 15 minuet sessions every night before he goes to bed. With him using the table, it has allowed him to enjoy day to day tasks. Of course he does not over do his limit on what he can lift. Before the inversion table, he was in constant pain with his bad discs.

 

[Zeeter]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

I hate to say this but my back issues went away when I dropped about 75 pounds. I was looking at surgery too.
I also got rid of my hard bed. Hard beds and back friendliness is bogus.

 

[capt_neo]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Hey Capt,
. . . . .
I lift right foot to step into the shower and it felt like I had been shot in the left buttock and like you I immediately fall to the floor unable to move and yes, I also had man tears(eye sweat) coming down. Naked, hurting and wife trying to help me up to put clothes on to go to hospital . . . . .

When I was a kid I use to make fun of people in my condition and basically call them "fakers". I guess I'm getting my paybacks. LOL Now when I see someone doing the looking for quarter walk I feel sorry for them and I know what they are going through.

Some surgeries are needed and some aren't. Trust your Dr. and If you don't, do not hesitate to ask for a second opinion.

ALL -

First let me say thanks for sharing the stories. At times we all tend to believe we're the only ones suffereing with our particular ailment (yeah, with 6+ BILLION people walking around the planet). So hearing of other similar catastrophies is somehow comforting (don't ask). I really appreciate the support and concern as well (ain't this a great forum?).

Second, "man tears = eye sweat" - OMG! the perfect explanation. I need to remember that "dooma_Flatchy!" (which btw, your "handle" is great. I reside in Texas currently and I recently used the term "dooma-flatchy" with one of the younger woman who I work with. The look on her face was priceless. She finally asked about (about 5 minutes later what was I referring to - told her that is the term of choice, inherited from my wise great grandfather who came over from Germany, when ever you can't think of the real name. Her response - " what ever." Guess it is a generational thing.)

Lastly, at the doctor's office today the decision was made to present my case to the surgeons board of review next Monday for surgery (an disc-ectomy/ sp?) with the intent of removing the disc materials that came through the disc membranes (I've got three areas that are pushing on the nerves). Doctor indicated the they thought I would have progressed more (reduced swelling) during the last two weeks from the bed rest - I still cannot sit at all and walking is only for very short distances before I get lower back spasms). We all know about the pain.

From what was explained to us, it is normally a 10-20 day recovery from the procedure with the possibility of physical therapy afterwards; my leg muscles have atrophied from the 2 weeks of continuous bed rest (frighteningly quick from my perspective). A fusion at this time does not appear to be necessary.

I know that inversion would "help" but with the prior injuries I've experienced, I think it would be temporary relief.

Anyway, not to bore you with the mundane, I have a target in my mind of achieving sufficient recovery to be on my feet / back to work early August (fingers crossed). I won't overdo it trying to "speed" things up, but I do want a milestone in my mind to get the heck out of bed.

Again, thanks for in the input, concerns, etc. For those of you that are still suffering, I am hoping your recovery is what you hope to achieve, sooner than later. Take care and have a terrific weekend.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Zeeter]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Best to you. I'll be pulling for you.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

intent of removing the disc materials that came through the disc membranes (I've got three areas that are pushing on the nerves). Doctor indicated the they thought I would have progressed more (reduced swelling) during the last two weeks from the bed rest - I still cannot sit at all and walking is only for very short distances before I get lower back spasms).

I believe my boss just had a very similar condition. He was practically L shaped and looked absolutely horrible. Couldn't really sit in his chair at work either. He had the surgery and was better immediately and back to work in 2 weeks. Prior to the surgery he had been to pain specialists and nothing they tried could touch the pain. He's doing great. Anecdotal I know but there it is nonetheless.

 

[dooma_Flatchy]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

Good Luck Capt, I'll add my post surgery success. Yes I do have an ongoing problem(degenerative disc disease) but my first surgery was such a success that when I woke up in post-op, I felt such a tremendous relief. I was sore but no leg/foot pain what so ever..I also had an discectomy. A lot of people look at me like I'm crazy (they probably are correct) when I tell them I did not have to have not a single pill for pain. . Only a couple of muscle relaxers during physical therapy 6 weeks later.

I wish you nothing but the best and I will have you in my thoughts and prayers during your ordeal. I survived my boredom by having my laptop close and hours watching my favorite tv shows/movies and a stack of good books.(Louis L'Amour and a Tom Clancy fan)

 

[capt_neo]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

I have back surgery scheduled for 8/31. The neuro-surgeon that I wanted, couldn't do it any sooner. He's going to use a procedure where he places a gel between the vertebrae before scratching/freshening the bone surfaces. The gel has substances/medication in it to promote bone growth. He said he's been using this procedure for the last 5 years with very good results. The incisions are much smaller which allows for faster healing and recovery. We'll see.

I have a good friend in Spokane who had what sounds like the procedure you are going to get BoatBuoy. He swears by it (and he was 65 years old at the time; 7 years ago). Good luck with the operation and please keep us apprised of your results. We'll be pulling for you.

 

[capt_neo]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

I had the surgery yesterday and only had to spend one night in the hospital (it was supposed to be outpatient, however they found a pretty good sized bone fragment lodged in between the herniated disc and the nerve. Due to the complication it created, the doctors wanted to observe me a little longer. That said, as

dooma_Flatchy stated, surgery was such a success that when I woke up in post-op, I felt such a tremendous relief.

Other than the rubber-chicken legs I have now (I lost 25 lbs in the last five weeks and I am afraid most of it was not body fat . Start therapy in ten days and am so glad to be back on my feet without any pain to speak of.

To eveyone who has had this procedure (micro disectomy) or others, it is a great relief. However my heart goes out to those of you who are still dealing with a pain that no one who hasn't experienced it can understand.

 

[dooma_Flatchy]

Re: What's a guy to do . . .? (a wee' long)

I had the surgery yesterday and only had to spend one night in the hospital (it was supposed to be outpatient, however they found a pretty good sized bone fragment lodged in between the herniated disc and the nerve. Due to the complication it created, the doctors wanted to observe me a little longer. That said, as



Other than the rubber-chicken legs I have now (I lost 25 lbs in the last five weeks and I am afraid most of it was not body fat . Start therapy in ten days and am so glad to be back on my feet without any pain to speak of.

To eveyone who has had this procedure (micro disectomy) or others, it is a great relief. However my heart goes out to those of you who are still dealing with a pain that no one who hasn't experienced it can understand.

That's great news!! Follow the Dr's instructions to the T. Therapy will be a pain at first but you will see great improvement towards the end. Take baby steps and barrel roll out of bed. I know you feel better but remember, TAKE IT EASY!!! LOL