what would you accept for "security"?

[popuptarget]

Hey guys I read the thread on "string him up". Being over here in Iraq I am at a lost for news coverage other than the internet (slow), but I have gotten the jest of the incident from fox online. I would love to show this guy how some of my tools of the trade work. But I read something it the thread that disturbed me. It was to the effect of "We've got to figure out what the he77 is going on with these sickos a get them out of our society BEFORE they do this. I know it's not easy to do without stepping on someone's rights, but I don't care.” I have done some things over here that I could not accept to be done in my country. I have gone to people’s houses at 0200 in the morning to search their persons and their house on a suspicion or a tip from an informant (another Iraqi). Many of these intrusions turn out to be nothing. No weapons or contraband found. I have had my weapon in many Iraqis faces just because I was not sure of their intentions. I drive down the middle of the street with my gunner aiming his .50cal at any civilian vehicle just in case of ied’s or bad guys. So far I would say that Iraq is a better place for it. Would you, as an American be willing to accept this treatment to ensure a safer America? For me the great thing about America is the privacy and freedoms we do enjoy.

 

[pjc]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

Ahoy and Ditto to preserving Our American freedoms PUT. But, to some degree in my mind the terrorists have won due to an unease type of mindset I now hold.<br /><br />I'd like to share an event that happened yesterday. My usual response was the same as my Lovely Brides. How sweet. That was a very nice person for that gesture.<br /><br />I receive a call at work from my wife. Just wants to say hi and so forth. "Oh, by the way honey, while at wally world with the kids today a real nice old man approached us on our way out to the car. He said what nice kids, can I give them each a teddy bear?. Why yes kind sir, say thanks kids".<br /><br />I initially think "how sweet". But on the way home I'm now kinda getting suspicious. Why the out of the blue gift to the kids. Weird says I. Any anthrax or ricen in them bears?? Maybe an RTID, dudes gone track family home..then what. How about a remote bomb in there.<br /><br />I get home, kids all excited to show dad the bear (5 & 3 year olds). I say yep, real nice of gent to give them to you. Then I examine bears, squeezing, feeling probing. Seems OK.<br /><br />This is a true story. <br /><br />My point is that due to current terror and nut job types running around we as parents MUST be on high alert regarding what goes on around our kids as well as ourselves. In this regard, Al Quida, terrorists have made an impact on me regarding how I MUST view acts by others and be suspicious of same.<br /><br />BTW, the 11 year old girl should not have been allowed out unescorted. IMO, her parents failed.<br />

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

excellent question sir!<br /><br />live free or die!<br /><br />although your circumstances P.O.T require you to<br />be hyper-careful, here at home I am very depressed<br />about the continued errosion of personal freedom.<br />I blame the equal errosion of personal responsiblility<br />for this...<br />don't want to be responsible? then don't be upset<br />when gov't makes the rules.<br />homeland security is a sham! if they wanna hit us,<br />they will regardless (9-11) of what we do.<br />do we let them win? please say no!<br />well guess what? thay ARE winning if we change laws<br />and become paranoid... that's their goal!<br /><br />on a good note, this is completely new territory<br />for all of us and I am confident that we will get<br />it right in the long run.<br />M.Y.

 

[JB]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

Great post, Popuptarget.<br /><br />A subject dear to my heart. <br /><br />I am more afraid of having my liberty and freedom restricted in the name of fear than I am of what everybody seems so afraid of. . .be it terrorism, predator persons or some other entity that may seek to injure me or mine.<br /><br />I also sympathize with Pat, who has been made insecure and suspicious by fear of crimes against children too horrible to comprehend.<br /><br />I am not intimidated by threats of terrorists, thugs, even petty rip-offs. I sell stuff to people on the internet and tell them to send me a personal check after they have it and are satisfied. So far my trust has been honored by trustworthiness. If someone cheats me he will injure himself more than JB.<br /><br />Why am I so trusting and fearless (that isn't as macho as it sounds)?<br /><br /> Because fear damages the spirit more than what is feared. <br /><br />I don't know what to tell Pat. The instinct to protect our children is as strong as any in our genes. The kind gentleman who gave them the bear acted with the best of motives, yet he made himself vulnerable to the most fearsome of accusations. . .born entirely of fear.<br /><br />Suppose that had been JB? I like to do stuff like that. I am a silverhaired old man who loves little ones. I don't do it much, though, because I might be misunderstood by fearful parents.<br /><br />Perhaps a quote from not one of my favorite Presidents fits here: "We have nothing to fear but fear, itself."<br /><br />EDIT: MY posted while I was typing. AMEN, MY.

 

[pjc]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

That is a real valid point JB.. time gone by folks like you were the salt of the Earth types, and my Bride and I respond in kind to your gestures.<br /><br />BUT..since these terrorist fears are real we can not.....<br /><br />So I say.. the terrorists have won here in the US,...similare to what folks in Israel experience daily...

 

[JB]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

I don't think the Israelis are terrified, Pat. I think they understand they are in a war and accept their vulnerability. Their leaders remember what REAL terror is. They fight back with a vengeance we would do well to emulate.<br /><br />What is the big difference? Being alert, willing to fight and unafraid is not the same as being terrified and helpless. Too many Americans are terrified and helpless. <br /><br />Many of us here have lost dear buddies and survived horrors beyond the imagination of many to protect our freedoms. <br /><br />It is difficult, with personal memories of the sacrifices of those whom Tom Brokaw calls "The Greatest Generation", not to look with disdain on the attitudes of many Americans toward the war we are in and the calls for further erosion of liberty.<br /><br />The predators? They are out there, but they are very few. If we view everyone as a potential predator freedom and liberty depart. If we are alert, willing to fight and unafraid we win, not them. Freedom from fear is among the most precious freedoms we have. . . or had.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

hello<br /> gotta go with ya there JB. when the kneejerk politicing is all over who pulls the reins on the homeland joker? or do we have another J Edgar Hoover syndrome where the homeland is more powerful than the president. I saw a news story a few weeks back were the school was raided by police and swat and drug kids around and forced them to the floor with loaded weapons at their heads and for what? oh we were hunting for demon weed. B S. all this was caught on the school security cam that they forgot to turn off and the news people got it. luckly the cop shop is being disbanded and the school principal is being fired but I would be outraged to some jack booted thug (read cop) had for no reason thrown one of my kids on the floor with a loaded weapon just cause some one may have some dope some where that they never found.<br /> its the scare tactics of fear that I fear. I too give gifts sometimes. usually if I see a child or children and one does something or behaves in a way that I think should be rewarded I will give money and tell them why. I gave a little girl a 5 spot the other day cause her little brother had tripped and fallen and spilled his candy all over the boardwalk. she helped him up and gave him some of hers.<br /> so I made sure she was rewarded. as far as being hit like the 9-11 thing. I was in ships self defense and ship security and always liked training. we trained with the marines at little creek. what we found was if the terrorist wants to die about all you can hope for is your not beside him when he goes boom. I like some of the security at airports but most of it is a joke. I watched a mother with 3 small children all less than 5 yrs old have her pair of baby fingernail scissors taken away by security. man I was howling with laughter . the poor mother was very upset and I told the TSA people what dumb bass people they were. I mean come on a pair of baby fingernail scissors are designed NOT to cut. I mean they are like 3 inches long and have blunted tips to cut baby fingernails. for those of you who have never trimmed baby finger nails its amazing how fast and strong them tiny fingers can be . I agree with JB I refuse to be intimitated by the fear of terrorism. I am confident I will survive ok. I accept checks all the time. I am careful and if the situation doesnt look or feel quite right I alter my course to another but I fly once a monh and have always. I go to malls I went to Venezuela last july and had a wonderful time.<br /> anyway enough rant. its sad that my 13 year old cant run about like I did but its just the fact of to many people and people feel isolated and therefore like they can do anything. and some people have brains that are just not wired right.<br /> to bad there is not a brain anylyzer that could say which are good and which a.<br />0r bad at conception.<br /> any way yall have a nice day now ya heah

 

[JoeW]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

popuptarget,<br />

"We've got to figure out what the he77 is going on with these sickos a get them out of our society BEFORE they do this. I know it's not easy to do without stepping on someone's rights, but I don't care.”

I posted the original. No, I'm not willing to give up my freedom even to get these sickos off of the street. But, there are a lot of things I am willing to give up that many people these days consider their god given right. Security always comes at a cost. The man that did this terrible crime had been convicted of sex crimes in the past. Why did we let him out? In short, because we as a society worry more about this @#$% rights than we do our own citizen who have not been convicted of a crime. Our judiciary has interpretted our consitiution well beyond any intention of our forefathers. I'm not judging them for this, for the most part they've done a great job.<br /><br />In my opinion, a convicted felon should no longer be consider a citizen of this country and should no longer receive the benefits or freedoms of citizenship. We need to make sure people like this never enter our society again. <br /><br />As for the terrorist threat, I believe that we should close our borders. I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this, but this is my belief. I'm not the biggest Michael Savage fan out there, but I believe he is right on the money when he says "We need to protect our border, our language and our culture from the liberal assult on America"

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

the "liberal assault" comes from within Joe...<br /><br />JB said;<br />"Because fear damages the spirit more than what is feared."<br />excellent quote! the horror shoved down our throats<br />every night on the news deff. helps feed the fear<br />IMHO.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

i fully support our homeland security program and the policies our government is using/exploring. maybe i'm too young or naive, but i have no problem with the government "watching" me. i don't do much that is illegal, so i don't worry. buying in to homeland security and what comes with it does not equal giving up liberty or freedom. it's helping it along.

 

[Carphunter]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

The events of 9/11 have changed this Country considerably. This was a life changing, world changing event. That cannot be denied. Whether we like it or not, it has changed us. That does not mean the terrorists have won, it just means that we cannot ever get complacent again. I am sure that many years after Pearl Harbor, people felt the same way, and we got through that, just like we will get through this.<br /><br />Pat, I too have two young children, I would not have even accepted gifts from a stranger. Call me paranoid, call me whatever you want, but, it is my duty as a parent to protect my children from any perceived threats of danger, and I will not fail them. I agree, its a shame that people have to think as I do about these types of things, but thats the way it is. I'm sure the parents of that little 11 year old girl wished they had been a little over-protective. <br />The world is not the same place it was when our parents were children. We have had to adapt to these changes, and we will continue to have to adapt to these changes. I wish things could go back to the way they were many years ago, but they can't.<br />The world has changed, and unfortunately, we must react accordingly.

 

[Raghauler]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

I'm with JB, but it's not just terrorism that is diluting our rights... all three branches of government have failed us miserably in the name of "campaign finance reform". And all of America, it seems, has been duped.<br /><br />Organizations, with the pooled resources of many members, will now break the law if they run any advertisement endorsing any candidate within 60 days prior to a general election. I don't recall that limitation in the First Amendment, and it sets what I consider to be a fatal blow to and the beginning of the end of the Constitution as we have known it. The media, of course, is exempt. And the Bill Gates' of the country, with vast unlimited personal financial resources, can pay for all the TV time they want. But if a bunch of poor folks like you and me decide to get together to chip in to the pot and buy some TV time, we're not allowed to... our First Amendment rights... DON"T EXIST! Decided in the Supreme Court last December, we all lost 5-4, with dissenting judges blasting the decision.<br /><br />Welcome to Amerika. Commissar Hillary will be "President" soon enough.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

look at history and you will see that when this<br />country is scared, we lose all common sense.<br />2 examples: fear of communisim/McCarthy hearings<br />and post pearl harbor when Japanese citizens were<br />rounded up and put in detention camps.<br />fear is a normal human emotion and can be a good<br />thing in some situations, but can seriously cloud<br />your judement. homeland security has the chance<br />to become another black eye in the history of this<br />country IMO.<br />remember, we're supposed to be the "land of the<br />FREE, home of the brave", not land of the insecure,<br />home of the scared....<br /><br />edit] pick up a copy of George Orwell's "1984"<br />he was just wrong on the date by 20 years...

 

[LadyFish]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

Agreed MY we are<br /><br />"One Nation Under Fear........"

 

[mattttt25]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

call it fear all you want people, when this country takes the next major terrorist attack, you can join the rest in questioning, "how did the government not see this coming?"

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

so Matt, all americans should give up their rights<br />to privacy because of a few bad guys? how would you<br />feel if you were wrongly accused of being an enemy<br />combatant and were thrown in jail without just<br />cause, legal defense, or proof of guilt?<br />"I have nothing to hide" has nothing to do with it!<br />how would you feel if the police could pull you<br />over for no reason or search your house without<br />any cause whatsoever?<br />what about that "inalienable" right to liberty?

 

[mattttt25]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

mellow- take a step back, no need to bring it to the extreme. one of the homeland security iniatives (often under attack) is to place cameras in public places, such as airports, city streets, etc. allows the authorities to watch suspects. now how does this lead to me being arrested and thrown in jail? how does this give the police a right to undue searches?<br /><br />talk about conspiracy theories. the only fear i see is what the "government" is going to take away from you. have a little faith in the people the majority of your peers elected to lead this country.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

Matt, it gives them the right to put you/me in jail<br />without due process. spy on us without just cause.<br />search and seize without a warrant.<br />this is OK with you because you have nothing to hide?<br />yes, I am being WAY extreme, but the facts remain<br />the same. I prefer to put MY faith in the U.S.<br />consitution & a legal system that says I am innocent<br />until proven guilty. they don't even have to charge<br />you with a crime <br />that is about as far away from liberty/freedom as<br />you can get sir...<br />accrding to Websters; Liberty:the freedom to think or act <br />without being constrained by necessity or force.<br /><br />edit] for the record; it's not that I think the <br />gov't is out to get me or that they will puropsely<br />use this situation for their own gain, it's just<br />WRONG IMO.

 

[JoeW]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

MY,<br />IMO, you are correct on one stance. Fear is our enemy. However, it seems we are more afraid of what we might do to ourselves rather than what a terrorist or a child molestor might do. Are we more afraid that a judge, elected official or police department might abuse a power than we are of this scum that is infesting our nation? I don't think that this was the intent of our founding fathers. <br />-Joe

 

[JB]

Re: what would you accept for "security"?

I guess I am a radical on this subject.<br /><br />Better to release the guilty than to convict the innocent.<br /><br />Having freedom and liberty is a risk in itself, for we must grant it to have it.<br /><br />In my mind it is a risk worth taking.