What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

[jp77431]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

Well! I contacted Volvo. I spoke to their Volvo of America office in Virginia. Here's a fact list that is based on that conversation:

1. Volvo of America does not include technical experts. There is no person working there that can comment as to whether simply eyeballing the propeller is a correct procedure; no one who can quote tolerances; no one who can even recommend someone to talk to.
   
2. Volvo of America is not vey helpful. "We can not get involved in what our dealerships do."
   
3. Volvo of Sweden is where any kind of technical assistance can be provided.
   
4. Volvo of America can NOT take action on any complaint unless it is provided in writing.

So, I am preparing a written brief and am copying the CEO of Volvo of America -- which happens to be a VERY small office.

Here's the bigger picture of what I learned after the frustrating 45 minute discussion with Volvo (and they were very defensive).

Listen: We have this notion that buying a boat or car involves such a statement about ourselves -- we want to have the best, most reliable vehicle that we seek to buy new things under warranty. We want NEW boats. New cars. Newness implies that we're protected. It's better! If something goes wrong -- The Company will stand behind its product. Besides, if it's new, the chances of having a problem in the first place are minimized. And by golly, if there is a problem we take it to an authorized dealership!

You work on your own car or boat? People think that you're crazy! The best way to keep your equipment running is to rely on the "professionals" at authorized dealers.

Bullcrap.

Do you know what Volvo told me? "Authorized dealer" only means that the shop agrees to send one of their mechanics to receive training every two years! THAT qualifies them to do warranty work. Warranty work means Authorized Dealer. You could have a shop full of careless substandard mechanics reporting to a scumbag owner and as long as one of them takes training every 2 years, they can be an Authorized Volvo dealership! There are no standards, rules, or minimum guidlines of customer service. No surveys, feedback scores, allowable number of complaints -- there is no other obligation. Report a problem about an authorized dealership as i did today and you'll hear these words stridently spoken to you: "So what are you asking us to do? We don't control them!" You report: "I picked this shop because they are listed on your website as an authorized dealer. That implies that there should be some set of professionalism and service that you stand behind."

You should definitely say that. Video tape the response and post it on YouTube if you can. I'll get the popcorn to hear their indignant response.

What does this mean?

Trust YOURSELF. Stop believing in the myth that spending your retirement money on new crap means one iota more of service or peace of mind.

From now on, unless there is some tool that I can not afford, all service on my boat will be done by me. If I must have repairs done by a so-called professional, I will chose the guy who seems to have character and honesty. Volvo as a SERVICE organization is a myth. Volvo may or may not make good PRODUCT (with all of the problems I've seen, the jury is out on that), but to be clear, there's no such thing as Volvo "support." If you find yourself dialing Volvo's number as I did today, and if you dial that number with a problem that requires "support" you're going to find out really fast that at the end of the day YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN. You're on your own and you probably have a whole lot less money than you would have had you been self reliant.

Shoot! I could have bought several dial indicators with the money I threw away at the Volvo Authorized dealership. The time it took -- including time lost on the phone today, towing the boat, and listening to the mechanic was enough to drop the outdrive and replace the coupler. A man named James Brown wrote a song in which he sang, "How long must I suffer for one mistake?"

My next steps are to write the CEO of Volvo -- I expect him to do nothing. I will file a claim with the insurance company. I will not report the activity of the San Jose shop that billed me for talking to their mechanic after THEY asked me to speak to him. Why? It will do no good. A basic rule is this: You can't regulate businesses into being honest.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

subsitute Ford,GM mercury or about anyother franchied dealersip and the letter will be the same.
best you can hope for are techs that actually take pride in being the best, not just doing the best of their ability.

 

[peacekeeper6]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

that is amazing.....i never buy new.....i bought a brand new f150, had the same experience and never bought new again. actually traded it in on a used 05 f150 with the same options and made out with 4k extra. hope you get a decent response.

 

[jp77431]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

I'm writing the letter today.

By the way, to clean up a few points, because I want to be fair:

When I mention that there is no such thing as a Volvo service organization, I specifically mean to say that there is no organization that supervises dealerships to ensure that they are competent and or honest. That is pretty much what the irritated Volvo person told me. "Well what are WE suppossed to do?"

Second, you do have some protections if you have a warranty. A contract. That's obvious, but it needed mention, given how angry I was in my last post. The thing is, my Volvo was under warranty and the fact is that getting warranty service still involves the crapshoot in finding good mechanics and honest owners. My trim sender is so bad -- from day one of service -- I have had to mark my guage with a magic marker to show where the down position is. I'm still working at getting that taken care of. Ultimately, after writing letters and hauling the boat all over town, the agent that will ensure that I get this fixed is not Volvo -- it's a Small Claims Court.

 

[ktmrider]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

Why would a GPS help in this situation? I have a car gps and it's almost useless on water.

Are you guys talking about a special water gps? What' sthe difference?

 

[tommays]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

A marine GPS (Chartplotter) places your boat on a electronic chart and shows all the water depths aids to navagition (when the chart was made ECT


I find it saves me a lot of props because around here in many places 6' is DEEP water



Tommays

 

[jp77431]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

Why would a GPS help protect against running aground? Good Lord!

This should be a thread in itself.

A GPS should be required safty equipment in any boat operated at night or in large bodies of water. GPS's come in several varieties: Mine is a Lowrance IWAY 500 and 90% of the time it resides in my Jeep Wrangler directing me around roads from California to New York. I disconnect it and place it in my Wellcraft and it is magnificant at directing me around Lake Don Pedro.

Three weeks ago, I took my boat out and met up with another boating family. Again, we stayed out until it was pitch dark. No moonlight on one of the rivers that feeds the huge Don Pedro Lake. When it was time to go, it was so dark you could not see where you were going. We both have spotlights but in dark conditions all spotlights do is to:

a) Ruin you night vision. The moisture in the air scatters floodlight and makes seeing anything dificult. Ironically, using a more powerful light only makes it worse.
b) Identify objects in very limited arcs. You may see land and rocks approaching, but you have no context as to where you are and your ability to judge distance is dangerously poor.

We followed my friend and 10 seconds after consulting my GPS we were shocked to see that he was headed straight for a grounding!

You can use a GPS on water as long as it has the correct map data. Some GPS's do not include detail for lakes and waterways. You can buy GPS's with (in my opinion) TOO much specialization for boating including tons of marine map data. Even water salinity and depth. I prefer a unit that can work in my car or boat. My IWAY has enough detail that it has been fabulously reliable on Don Pedro. The other great thing about it is that it has a big computer hard drive that includes map information for the entire country. Recently, I stuck it in a suitcase, flew to upstate New York, rented a car and it never made a wrong turn.

I only get into trouble when I don't use the GPS.

Funny thing was -- get this -- after I ran aground that night (and I was boating alone with a woman who is a mutual friend of mine and my wife) the perfectly dark and silent lake suddenly produced a boat racing toward my boat. It was a fishing boat. The guy in the boat starts a long-winded speech to me and my frightened friend. Mind you, we just ran agound at 20MPH. We in partial shock! Our boat is dead, hung up on the bottom. This jerk drove up and started babbling to me while adrenaline was still cruising through my body -- this jerk is pointing to his GPS explaining where I should have turned. He's 20 fet away ENGROSSED in his GPS display talking at length about where specific hazards are while his fishing buddy listens as though he was The High Pobah of the Bedrock Water Buffalo club.

I don't recall because I may have blocked the memory, but I think I may have said something that was slightly rude.

 

[ktmrider]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

Good post.

I have a Garmin Nuvi 350....

What Gamin GPS can do both land and water?

 

[tommays]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

There are very few AUTO units that hold up in marine use



The GARMIN GPS-Portable GPSMap 478 Coastal

would be one

Most auto units have NO water proofing at all

I like Lowrance BUT it is a MARINE only unit

And you really should ALWAYS have paper charts of the areas you boat in as it allows you to study the area for hazards

Tommays

 

[jp77431]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

The good marine units advertise that they're submersible. Personally, I would think that if my GPS finds its way into the water it's going to the bottom. Therefore, that claim has limited value to me.

I think that lots of automotive GPS's will do just fine for inland lake boating. Again, it's about the maps -- if the maps have the necessary detail, then it's fine to use. My IWAY uses NAVTEC and the NAVTEC maps are very good.

The other characteristic is that the screen should be large enough that it can be read while underway. GPS manufacturers seem to miss that important characteristic. For a guy like me who does not have good near vision, having one of those GPS's with the small display is begging for an accident. You squint to see some detail while manuevering in traffic and voila! You're pulling fiberglass splinters out of your teeth. The display size that seems to be best is 5 inches. That's big enough that it can be read easily with a glance, but not so large that it covers the entire windshield forward view for those of us who mount them on the dash.

Speaking of which -- Tommays -- whoever did that Lowrance installation should be flogged! A screw right through the dash to secure the cables?! And the GPS is covering important gauges! Please tell me that isn't your boat.

 

[Don S]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

Siggi, you might want to lighten up a bit.
So far, NOBODY has done or said anything to your liking.

 

[orion25]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

Speaking of which -- Tommays -- whoever did that Lowrance installation should be flogged! A screw right through the dash to secure the cables?! And the GPS is covering important gauges! Please tell me that isn't your boat.

Ummmmmmmm, I would bet he did it himself. In case you have not noticed most of the members here are of the DIY variety. Plus it is removable. If you are cruising in unfamiliar territory why would you need to see a tach? I can almost tell what my engine is at by the sound of it and I have owned it for less than 2 months. Even if he is at WOT he can see the 4K to 5K range with the GPS mounted.

Just because you do not like something is no reason to bash another's setup.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

The good marine units advertise that they're submersible. Personally, I would think that if my GPS finds its way into the water it's going to the bottom. Therefore, that claim has limited value to me.

I think that lots of automotive GPS's will do just fine for inland lake boating. Again, it's about the maps -- if the maps have the necessary detail, then it's fine to use. My IWAY uses NAVTEC and the NAVTEC maps are very good.

The other characteristic is that the screen should be large enough that it can be read while underway. GPS manufacturers seem to miss that important characteristic. For a guy like me who does not have good near vision, having one of those GPS's with the small display is begging for an accident. You squint to see some detail while manuevering in traffic and voila! You're pulling fiberglass splinters out of your teeth. The display size that seems to be best is 5 inches. That's big enough that it can be read easily with a glance, but not so large that it covers the entire windshield forward view for those of us who mount them on the dash.

Speaking of which -- Tommays -- whoever did that Lowrance installation should be flogged! A screw right through the dash to secure the cables?! And the GPS is covering important gauges! Please tell me that isn't your boat.

The thread started with i grounded a drive and now what....or close enough. Generally speaking when you walk into a service facility do you normally encounter such communication issue's??

By the way as to Tommay's, you might want to give him a break, he doesn't get himself or back himself into such ordeal's.......hmmm i dont think he need's a tach either for that matter......high tech idiot light i assume......... He' the Captain of his boat, placing his priority's in a manner which avoid's such thing's.....as a grounding. Geesh screw's and all........ ummm those screw's are tight right Tommay's......

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

I prefer cash to emoney.....
IE study the paper charts......
& use caution.....IMHO....​

 

[tommays]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

Speaking of which -- Tommays -- whoever did that Lowrance installation should be flogged! A screw right through the dash to secure the cables?! And the GPS is covering important gauges! Please tell me that isn't your boat




Well Sig


Just were would you install IT ? on a small 19' boat

I could have have installed in the middle of the walkthrough windshileld BUT that would have made walking through a bit of a problem


I could have drilled a BIG hole through the dash BUT that would have left a mark


Or i could secure the many cables for the power ,NEMA 0183 and NEMA 2000 with a few #8 screws that can easely be sealed with color matched caulk at some point in the future BUT as the boat is allready 13 years old it is really not a big deal




I am just one of those OLD guys that find it best to be able to clearly see my aid to navagation

AS it gives a real speed the blocked speedo(yes the tack is the one that you can still see) is NOT really that big of a deal



I would like to thank you for the expert install advise and will consult you on the next install were there is only ONE place the GPS will GO and still ba able to be seen






Tommays

 

[rodbolt]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

Tommays
we occasionally have to install units similar to your installation simply due to space limitations. most older hulls never allowed for much in the way of add ons.
however with that much electronics and metal so near your compass I would decline to use the compass for navigation now.
had a friend a few years back that almost had an incident returning from the gulf stream.
seems someone placed a pair of pliers on the console and in the dark he failed to notice it had drawn the rose about 20*. he almost ran out of fuel trying to make oregon inlet.
but on the bright side, he almost made moorehead city .
myself I am not real fond of GPS navigation, I cant see the screen. I usually use my depth finder here in the sound.
if I know the water depth and bottom hardness I usually know where I am.
however, there are 3 types of boaters here.
those that have run aground,those that will and those that lie about it.

 

[tommays]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

The picture was taken well to the LEFT of my seat to show someone you can read the screen in bad sunlight


The depth finder is in FULL view in the normal seating position



The compass was never worth a hoot and have never moved it as it was there before the big GPS was installed NOT there is much room to put a real good one in anyway


If the big unit ever craps out i just pull out the handheld backup unit and my Paper chart and then pull all my DR skills out from all the long sailboat races


I did get lost once a night on the sailboat when the compass light bulb burnt out , just droped the hook and waited till daybreak


I really dont need it , it is just fun to have and the on screen NEMA 2000 fuel flow is buy far the most usefull feature as runing out is



Tommays

 

[jp77431]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

Siggi, you might want to lighten up a bit.
So far, NOBODY has done or said anything to your liking.

Say what?! That came out of left field! Jeez, I won't go back and read every post, but I'm sure I said several times how great this forum is and thanked people. Wow! NOBODY has done or said anything to my liking?! Are you smoking something?

Man, just the opposite -- thanks to everyone who provided advice. I'm not sure I want to post on this forum again -- I don't need drama. If I don't I reiterate: This is a great forum!

 

[jp77431]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

Speaking of which -- Tommays -- whoever did that Lowrance installation should be flogged! A screw right through the dash to secure the cables?! And the GPS is covering important gauges! Please tell me that isn't your boat




Well Sig


Just were would you install IT ? on a small 19' boat

I could have have installed in the middle of the walkthrough windshileld BUT that would have made walking through a bit of a problem


I could have drilled a BIG hole through the dash BUT that would have left a mark


Or i could secure the many cables for the power ,NEMA 0183 and NEMA 2000 with a few #8 screws that can easely be sealed with color matched caulk at some point in the future BUT as the boat is allready 13 years old it is really not a big deal




I am just one of those OLD guys that find it best to be able to clearly see my aid to navagation

AS it gives a real speed the blocked speedo(yes the tack is the one that you can still see) is NOT really that big of a deal



I would like to thank you for the expert install advise and will consult you on the next install were there is only ONE place the GPS will GO and still ba able to be seen






Tommays

Gosh Tommays -- I'm really sorry. Your set up is fine and don't take it so personally.

Thanks everyone -- I think this forum was great.

 

[tommays]

Re: What to do when you run a Volvo SX aground

"Speaking of which -- Tommays -- whoever did that Lowrance installation should be flogged! A screw right through the dash to secure the cables?! And the GPS is covering important gauges! Please tell me that isn't your boat."



Dude you just told me i am a HACK which part of that is not personal




Tommays