What to do about ethanol?

[bruceb58]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

do not use fuel additives that have ethanol in them (like dry gas)

Dry gas never has ethanol in it. Methanol or isopropyl alcohol.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

the E producer consutorium is actually trying to slide the 15% in through a back door in the law.
25% is their ultimate goal as they are going bankrupt while bankrupting us.
anything more than 10% right now in any US marine imported stuff and your manufactures warrenty may be voided.
we had one last spring that tested at 30%.
motor ran nasty.
however like I said, I have made a killing rebuilding fouled carbs,VST tanks and injector filters.
dont belive it, let your carolina skiff sit with the clear poly tank exposed in the sunlight a few weeks.
when the tank and sender float start dissolving stand by, and they will.
we are finding that sunlight,gasoline,ethanol and moisture do funky things to plastic tanks,floats on fuel senders and plastic draw tubes.
like I say, lots of coinage so far.
I especially love it when I pull an intake to service the VST and see the brown gooy residue that you can leave finger prints in covering the intake runners.
usually means I am gonna get a power head or valve job shortly.

 

[Lou C]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

the E producer consutorium is actually trying to slide the 15% in through a back door in the law.
25% is their ultimate goal as they are going bankrupt while bankrupting us.
anything more than 10% right now in any US marine imported stuff and your manufactures warrenty may be voided.
we had one last spring that tested at 30%.
motor ran nasty.
however like I said, I have made a killing rebuilding fouled carbs,VST tanks and injector filters.
dont belive it, let your carolina skiff sit with the clear poly tank exposed in the sunlight a few weeks.
when the tank and sender float start dissolving stand by, and they will.
we are finding that sunlight,gasoline,ethanol and moisture do funky things to plastic tanks,floats on fuel senders and plastic draw tubes.
like I say, lots of coinage so far.
I especially love it when I pull an intake to service the VST and see the brown gooy residue that you can leave finger prints in covering the intake runners.
usually means I am gonna get a power head or valve job shortly.

Rodbolt do you see more problems in modern outboards or in I/Os, I read of a lot of issues with the Yam VST tanks but not so much with old school I/Os as long as the water seperating filters are changed...

I am considering an OB for the next boat but not if I have deal with chronic VST problems...

 

[krazykatz911]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

10% is not going to hurt anything. It has the same effect of what people would do by adding dry gas in their tanks. 10% diluted in gas is not enough to be corrosive, this is why it is completely safe in cars not designed to be E85.

People are panicking over nothing.

 

[Lou C]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

10% is not going to hurt anything. It has the same effect of what people would do by adding dry gas in their tanks. 10% diluted in gas is not enough to be corrosive, this is why it is completely safe in cars not designed to be E85.

People are panicking over nothing.

This is the theory we were fed...but here's the reality....if you have an older boat...gas tank dates to before E-10, it will have crud, the E-10 WILL CLEAN IT OUT...YOUR FILTERS COULD CLOG...

Here's why the car analogy does not work.
Do you drive a 15-25 year old car? Most likely not, but this is common on boats...with a car anywhere from 3-10 years old you probably won't have crud in the gas tank...
And in addition..marine tanks are vented to the atomsphere...the last car I had that used that system was a 1970 Ford made 40 years ago...
Lastly, E-10 is not mixed at the refinery and piped in....why? they say it's too corrosive...
And when tested...some so called E-10...is more like E-20-30...hence the problems seen.

Go over the the hull truth.com and read about ethanol and Yamaha VST filters, that will give you some food for thought....

 

[Don S]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

I fixed 8 Yamaha 4 cylinder EFI engines last year. The VST tank was dirty, and the injectors were messed up and the things wouldn't idle or run.
Most of those did not have a 10 micron or any water seperating fuel filter installed. Had they, and had they changed the filter yearly, there probably wouldn't have been any problems. The 1 that did have a filter, was a 20 micron filter and had 2006 written on the filter with magic marker.

The biggest problem with E10 is lack of water seperating fuel filters and lack of maintenance by the owners till something actually goes wrong.

I am also going to move this over to Boat Topics and Questions, as it has as much to do with outboads as it does IO's, perhaps more.

 

[RicMic]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

10% is not going to hurt anything. It has the same effect of what people would do by adding dry gas in their tanks. 10% diluted in gas is not enough to be corrosive, this is why it is completely safe in cars not designed to be E85.

People are panicking over nothing.

At the recommended ratio, dry gas is about .5%, thats 1/20th of E10 and thats assuming its E10 and not the E30 tested at some gas stations. If E10 is so safe, why do outboard manufacturers recommend NOT using it?

 

[Socal Pat]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

If E10 were not safe then how is it that every outborad running in California can run happily on it? We have no choice in fuel mix.

 

[RicMic]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

If E10 were not safe then how is it that every outborad running in California can run happily on it? We have no choice in fuel mix.

WOW, thats very impressive, I didn't realize that NO outboard in the state of CA has had an ethanol related problem, where did you find that info?

 

[Socal Pat]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

When I say "every" I was simply refering to the fact that since E10 is what is sold by law here that we are all running it. I go to the lake every weekend and see boats all over running on the stuff. Every one of them. There may be a few that have some issue, but as was pointed out by DonS, it is usually due to lack of maintenance. Since you are big on exact language then I would say that the number of boats running E10 without problems far outweighs those that do have problems. Mine included over the last 10 years.

 

[eli_lilly]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

If E10 were not safe then how is it that every outborad running in California can run happily on it? We have no choice in fuel mix.

California has a _lot_ less water vapor in the air than Florida does.

-E

 

[Bigperch]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

When I say "every" I was simply refering to the fact that since E10 is what is sold by law here that we are all running it. I go to the lake every weekend and see boats all over running on the stuff. Every one of them. There may be a few that have some issue, but as was pointed out by DonS, it is usually due to lack of maintenance. Since you are big on exact language then I would say that the number of boats running E10 without problems far outweighs those that do have problems. Mine included over the last 10 years.

Seems the logical question to ask is: if it weren't forced on you, would you burn it?

 

[Socal Pat]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

Since, as I said, I have been using it for many years with no issues then sure. Then again to me the whole ethanol scare is such a non issue I have started running E85 in my supercharged vehicle. I was told it would be devastating to my fuel system. That was years ago and my 2000 Mazda Miata is still running happily and tuned for more power than it could have ever run with standard pump gas.

 

[aschubert]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

Never, ever, ever use ethanol in anything..it is terrible, and it will only encourage more use of it..it does separate out, so if you love pulling your carb at the beginning of a season and cleaning out the thin, plastic like film it leaves all over the inside of it from the breakdown into something else thatw does not burn (by the way) skip it..I have researched this to the ends of the information..NEVER USE ETHANOL..

 

[DaNinja]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

Never, ever, ever use ethanol in anything..it is terrible,..NEVER USE ETHANOL..

Personally, I like my ethanol in wine and beer. Vodka too at times!

and it will only encourage more use of it..

That's for sure!

 

[H20Rat]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

Since, as I said, I have been using it for many years with no issues then sure. Then again to me the whole ethanol scare is such a non issue I have started running E85 in my supercharged vehicle. I was told it would be devastating to my fuel system. That was years ago and my 2000 Mazda Miata is still running happily and tuned for more power than it could have ever run with standard pump gas.

I've been burning e30-e50 in my turbocharged subaru for years, it loves the stuff! Large increase in hp, even bigger increase in torque, and the mileage is almost identical. (can't go above e50 though, run out of injector and fuel pump) This is a vehicle that normally requires premium fuel and absolutely zero ethanol per factory spec. A couple computer changes and now its an e50 monster! yes, e85 has less btu potential, but you can get that mileage back with more advanced timing because of octane content.

But... that said, ethanol doesn't go into any of my 2 strokes simply because the carbs aren't jetted for it. I've spent many hours fine tuning the ECU in my car to work with the ethanol mix, and if I were inclined, I could fine tune the jetting on the carb'ed 2 strokes to run ethanol safely through them also. (10% ethanol NEEDS more fuel, and if you have a non-O2 sensor EFI or carb, there is nothing that is going to auto-adjust that for you)

 

[hunterpa64]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

Did you make that up or are you paraphrasing from someone else that doesn't have a clue???

10% ethanol = about 15% less mileage. Ethanol does not have the energy output that conventional gas has. That is a fact. Phase separation is also a fact. Ask any gas dealer how many filters they change on their pumps and why they sweep their storage tanks when they change over to 10% ethanol.

The other problem with E-10 is how it's blended. If the fuel is just splashed together and not blended properly you can get slugs of ethanol that will cause problems.

It happens everyday and the sellers know it.

 

[hunterpa64]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

I just got back from an 1800 mile roadtrip through the southern US, and every sticker I saw said "may contain UP TO 10% ethanol".

I could be wrong but I think the federal limit is still 10%, with legislation pending to increase it to a 15% maximum later this year.

And who do you suppose checks this? Not all states have a fuel quality program, for example PA. A year ago 10% ethanol meant $.12 extra profit / gallon. Do you think that some would not like to make $.24 or $.36 / gallon profit?

If you think ethanol isn't corrosive take a look at a check valve in a gas meter. If the seals are not viton ethanol will eat it alive.

 

[JB]

Re: What to do about ethanol?

If E10 is so safe, why do outboard manufacturers recommend NOT using it?

You're going to have to prove that, RicMic. My impression is exactly the opposite.