What is the problem with Bayliner?

Gilbert MacIntyre · Nov 29, 2002

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

I certainly have enoyed alot of these posts. Being a relatively new boat owner I like to learn by others' mistakes. I wonder if we can expand the thread. How about stories on Doral good and bad, Sea Ray, Chris... and most importantly my new baby Chaparral(20' cuddy 4.3 merc )

Ripsnort · Jan 22, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

Old thread, sorry for the punt, just putting my 2 cents in... Bayliner manufacturing used to NOT chamfer the corners of the fir stringers prior to fiberglass encapulation, leaving the potential for air gaps (Sharp cornered wood should not be fiberglassed) that gave them the potential for dry rot within the encapsulated fir stringers. I've seen it in person on a fellow doing some boat repair work on a 1989 Bayliner. Not sure if they still poor practice this fabrication process today or not.

Bondo · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

Just because you brought this up from the Depths of the archives Ripsnort, I'll Also add MY Oppinion...... I too have worked on more than a couple of boats over the years....... New, Old, Used, or Abused........... I've Never found a Bilgeliner that I'd call a Quality Built Boat..... If present Bilgeliner owners are Offended, I'm Sorry..... If Your boat suits your needs, I'm Glad...... But, that Doesn't Mean Bilgeliners are Quality Boats...... They're Not....... Except Maybe CCrews, But, then again, Very little of his boat is Original Bilgeliner..... Not to start a Riot again, But, My Opinion , based on the Facts I've found to be True , quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bilgeliners are built with the Least amount of Inferior materials possible, to create the Illusion of a Quality Boat..... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

jd_smith · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

My experience only, I have an 19.5' 88 capri that originally came with a 125 Force, bought her about 5 years ago. The boat is great, handles rough water of LI Sound well and is a tough boat. I've been through a lot with her and have been happy with the purchase. The Force motor I was not so happy with, just repowered with a 140 Johnson. Could some of the bad reputation stem from the Force-Bayliner marriage?

catfish1 · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

jd, yes indeed! thats exactly my opinion. bayliner makes a decent boat, i dont care what bondo has to say about it!!!

but chrysler outboards just plain suck, thats just my opinion. i'll bet your lovin that johnson!!!!

imported_Mike_M2 · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

Ok, lets run some figures. From Nadaguides, here's the values. Model; year; stripped retail avg.; % of 03 cost Bayliner 285; 2003; 49,800 2855;1996; 24,400; .48 2855; 1990; 14,200 ; .28 Searay 280; 2003; 86,200 290;1996; 42,500; .49 280;1990; 24,300; .28 Maxum 2700; 2003; 62,900 2700;1996; 32,700; .51 2700;1990; 16,900; .26 Searay jumps a foot mid 90's as they didn't make a 28 footer. As these figures show, Bayliner seems to hold it's value just as well as others, even on a 14 year old boat.

DJ · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

Interesting isn't it? Especially considering that a Maxum is a Bayliner, for the most part. Reputations, whether good or bad, deserved or not, are hard to overcome.

imported_Mike_M2 · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

Huh?? Maxum has nothing to do with Bayliner other than the same parent company owning them. Beyond that, different factories, designs, inventories. Going by that statement, so is the Searay! Does that mean you put Bayliner on the same platfrom as SR? How about Baja? Or Hatteras? They all may have the same parents, but that's where the equality stops. I'm not saying any one of them is junk or not, i'm just stating it's odd for a boat that's junk to hold value as well as one that's not.

nightstalker · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

Perception is more powerful than truth. The Bayliner badmouthing has been going on for so long, that there isn't anything that cmpany can do to change the consumers negative perceptio of Bayliner. One group that perpetuates this negative perception or your competators. At boat shows, marinas, sales rooms, I hear over and over how the Trophy is simply a Baylinr from your competators. The story sticks, and by the way, from my experience with Bayliner, they are cheaply built and known as a "wet" boat. Stalker

mole2 · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

So...after reading this long thread (that I agree should have died long ago) this is what I have come up with. 1. Bayliner (1980's) is a bad boat because the decks rot due to having unencapsulated wood as the core. Just like the rotting on the Parkers who also didn't have encapsulated wood on the decking. 2. Bayliner (1980's) is a bad boat because the transoms rot due water leaking into the coring just like the rotting transoms on the Grady Whites. 3. Bayliner is bad due to the warranty not covering blistering below the water line like so many other manufacturers. It will blister even on a trailer. Just like Pascoe says that most all boats in the industry do. By the way...Bayliner gives a lifetime hull warranty now (other than the aforementioned blistering possiblity which is an industry wide problem) and Trophy gives a 10 year hull warranty (transferable). 4. Bayliner is a bad boat because all the dedicated employees work for the competition leaving only those interested in paychecks to work for Bayliner. 5. Bayliner is a bad boat because we heard of someone who had a friend who's third cousin removed knew someone who knew someone who heard that a Bayliner came apart on a cloudless day without wind while on the glass like water of a protected bay killing a whole family, their dog, 2 cats and a parrot. No lawyers got invovled though...and that's why the company still exists. 6. Bayliner measures pulpits and swim decks for the boat length. The 20 foot Trophy model 2002 is being measured from the pulpit to the tip of the engine making it only 6 inches long (actually it's 21' 7" including the pulpit but it's sold as a 20 foot which is the keel measurement) while the Seaswirl 21 foot model 2101 is advertised as 21 foot when in reality it's a 20 foot boat with a pulpit. Keep in mind this makes Bayliner falsly advertising. 7. Bayliners are light boats unlike Grady Whites which are heavy boats. The Trophy 2002 weighs 3342 lbs with base motor and the Grady White Adventure 208 weighs 2650 lbs without motor. That allows almost 700 lbs for the motor for the GW to weigh as much as a Trophy of the same size! Ain't gonna happen folks. A Mercury 225hp 4 stroke only weighs 583 pounds. By the way....Trophy has NOT been a Bayliner since they were spun off in 2000. It's been it's own line since then. Folks, most of the comments here are by people who have never owned the brand. Do your own investigating and buy what you like and can afford. Don't discount brands because of hearsay. Oh....yeah....I'm a happy Trophy owner.

JasonJ · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

One of the main (and very troubling) problems with Bayliner, especially the 80s models, is the hull layup. They did not use enough layers of glass and resin in the initial hull layup, which is why they are so light, and which is also why you are more likely to suffer a catastrophic hull failure after the wooden structure has rotted away. That is the difference between a Bayliner and another higher quality boat. A good boat can have its stringers rot away and the glass that held them in is strong enough to keep the boat together. You don't know you have a problem until the floor is soft. There are a lot of boat manufacturers that had problem boats, but Bayliner made the active decision to take the short cut way. Now, a new entry level Bayliner is probably as good as an entry level Glastron or whatever, but it will be hard for them to get past the stigma. The problem with hull layup and other shoddy work seems to be limited to the smaller run-abouts. The larger Bayliners, greater than 22 feet, seemed to be on a par with other manufacturers boats. I have a good friend who worked at Bayliner, he installed the wiring harness and stuff like that. The horror stories he had about the guys who did hull layup was enough to keep a person awake for days. I'll put it to you this way, there was a big difference between a monday boat and a friday boat. I personally would not mind coming across a rotted out Bayliner, they look good. I could lay in a proper structure and bring it up to a proper strength status and have a good looking boat. I would never be able to get my money back, it will still be a Bayliner...

imported_Mike_M2 · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

There's no denying it, the older Bays were cheaply biult. That's what they were supposed to be. When Brunswick took over, they changed...a lot. I had a one of the first "new" models, a 2355. It was a solid boat, seemed well biult, and very well layed out. That's the boat that showed me Bayliner was improving. Since then they have gotten even better, now they are what i consider a mid level boat. Funny how everybody knocks the hell out of them, yet they hold resale value like a Searay, and they compete head to head for sales with Searay. They have been #1 and #2 in sales for years now, are all these people fools??

rickdb1boat · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

I still see ALOT of them going strong where I boat. Must be something to them...

Bondo · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

"Must be something to them..." So Many Of 'Em.....

DJ · Jan 23, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

My point was that perceptions are what they are, whether real or perceived. I am in the sales and service business (not boats or marine equip.). I NEVER knock another product. I just explain why I think what I am offering will offer more benefits to the potential customer. Some of the "pitches" I heard at the last boat show were appalling. They could not explain one benefit of their product. All they did was knock everyone elses product. That is a REAL turn off to alot of people. I deal with customers on all points in the spectrum. (oooh bad analogy, Spectrum was another US Marine offering

) There are buyers that are price, price, price. There are others that are quality, quality, quality. Most are somewhere in between. My point about Maxum was received, as intended, sort of tongue in cheek. Brunswick created the Maxum line for several reasons. One cannot deny that they wanted another line without a "perceived" bad rep. That is BY NO MEANS the only reason.

love1u0 · Jan 25, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

First off..hi

Well,I worked for Bayliner a few years back. I will tell you what is wrong with Bayliner. One word..management. All they care about is getting the boat out the door. They do not care about quality at ALL. I have witnessed enough things that would make it clear that I would NEVER own one. This includes the following..... Worked on a boat that had fractured out all along both sides of the bridge, it wasnt little fractures, it was two long fractures that ran about 3' along both sides. the reason this happened was there wasnt enough glass blown underneath. Managment had us grind the fractures and fill with puddy, then spray over it with gel coat. All I kept thinking was what will happen when a bunch of people start bouncing around there?? I heard managment say numerous times that it doesnt matter, there is a warranty on the boat. So, you might be one of the lucky ones who wont get a screwed up boat, but if you do get a bad one, just remeber there is a warranty.

mole2 · Jan 25, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

Originally posted by love1u0: First off..hi Well,I worked for Bayliner a few years back. I will tell you what is wrong with Bayliner...

Isn't it amazing how a brand new users very first post would be this thread. And an ex-employee with a horror story at that. By the way...how long ago was that? What year/model boat? What plant? It may be helpful in determining what years to avoid or not.

love1u0 · Jan 25, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

It was the Spokane WA plant, and it was a bigger boat. Thats all Im going to say

And by the way, who cares if this is my first post.

imported_Mike_M2 · Jan 26, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

Funny how someone named Mole is asking about a troll

JasonJ · Jan 26, 2004

Re: What is the problem with Bayliner?

Love1uo, my friend worked the Spokane plant. I shudder thinking about it....I want to say he worked it in the 80s, we both had joined the military in 87 (didn't know each other at the time)...

What is the problem with Bayliner?

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