What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

[imported_Skippy]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

Comment: purged for not agreeing with the Forum elders

 

[Cannondale]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

NMMA's actual statement on it's TC-W3 licensed rating (source NMMASept. 2010 : http://www.nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/)
"The long term objectives of the two cycle engine industry have been to reduce emissions which contain burnt and unburned oil that has passed through the engine, and to develop a quality of oil that reduces the mixture ratio to fuel while extending the life of the engine. That means significantly reduced emissions to satisfy EPA requirements, less warranty problems, and increased customer satisfaction due to engines lasting longer with less maintenance and overhauls.

TC-W3? lubricant, an NMMA owned trademark, has evolved over the years through much testing and research, and has proven to be the level of quality to satisfy the above objectives. And, going a step further, now that two cycle engines have moved towards higher cylinder temperatures and compressions, this lubricant also meets the EPA emissions reductions.

TC-W3? has demonstrated the necessary lubrication performance quality needed for these more demanding cylinder/engine conditions. "

Some of you folks are reading way too much of a broad interpretation into that TC-W3 rating. It is, what it says it is. It does not say it is for every motor ever made, nor does its' own specification say it is optimum for every outboard motors operating conditions.
It "satisfy(s) the above objectives": and most critically mentioned by the NMMA source -- the emissions.

It is a licensed PASS-FAIL test. Those NMMA test criteria may, or may not, be applicable to your outboard. IF additional specifications/additives for your outboards lubrication are needed, could the engine manufacturer "possibly" have included them in their own TC-W3 rated and blended oils?
Maybe Brand-Name oils are just advertising, snake oil, mouse milk ... or maybe it cost more money to exceed a lubricant package then just surviving a basic Pass-Fail test?
You be the judge.

Sounds like you sell outboards/outboard services.

So lets take your statement from above and examine it:

Those NMMA test criteria may, or may not, be applicable to your outboard. IF additional specifications/additives for your outboards lubrication are needed, could the engine manufacturer "possibly" have included them in their own TC-W3 rated and blended oils?

So, just suppose that your new Mercury engine falls into this.....that Mercury requires use of their oil to maintain warranty. Then, in this case, Mercury MUST provide that oil FREE OF CHARGE to the consumer. This is a provision of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Section 102(c)

The only way the manufacturer can require you to use their brand of filter, or any other part is for the manufacturer to provide the item free of charge under the terms of the warranty, and I have yet to see any of the new car manufactures doing this. This falls under the "Tie-In Sales" section of the Magnuson-Moss Act.


On the other hand, a lot of marketing speak does tout this or that oil's superiority over other brands......does that mean it/they actually are? No, unless definitive laboratory testing is provided to prove said claims.

Also, when you mentioned this:

It "satisfy(s) the above objectives": and most critically mentioned by the NMMA source -- the emissions.

You conveniently left out the "other" testing parameters that are required to gain TCW-3 certification for oils, including (as mentioned below the quoted parts you posted and left off) rust prevention, preignition tendencies, miscibility/fluidity, filterability, compatibility, detergency and ring sticking, in addition to lubricity.

So far, I've yet to find one single instance of a 2-stroke marine engine requiring anything other than a TCW-3 cert'd. oil to maintain warranty. If you have any examples, please share.

 

[imported_Skippy]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

Comment: purged for not agreeing with the Forum elders

 

[seahorse5]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

that Mercury requires use of their oil to maintain warranty. Then, in this case, Mercury MUST provide that oil FREE OF CHARGE to the consumer. This is a provision of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Section 102(c)

The only way the manufacturer can require you to use their brand of filter, or any other part is for the manufacturer to provide the item free of charge under the terms of the warranty, and I have yet to see any of the new car manufactures doing this. This falls under the "Tie-In Sales" section of the Magnuson-Moss Act.

I love it when the internet keyboard cowboys use this type of quote to explain the Magnuson-Moss Act, but they are at a loss when they read the Mercury owners manual that says you have to use the Merc Premium or High-Performance Gear Lube in Mercury outboards. There are no substitutions listed or any equivalent products.

Evinrude and Johnson Outboards do the same. They specify only their brand of gear lubes are to be used.

How come the internet experts are not filing massive class actions against Merc and Evinrude for not providing FREE lower unit oil to everyone?

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

I love it when the internet keyboard cowboys use this type of quote to explain the Magnuson-Moss Act, but they are at a loss when they read the Mercury owners manual that says you have to use the Merc Premium or High-Performance Gear Lube in Mercury outboards. There are no substitutions listed or any equivalent products.

Evinrude and Johnson Outboards do the same. They specify only their brand of gear lubes are to be used.

How come the internet experts are not filing massive class actions against Merc and Evinrude for not providing FREE lower unit oil to everyone?

They can and always have recommended the brand name lubricants. But they cannot absolutely REQUIRE it to honor their warranty, and if you read the exact wording carefully you'll see that they avoid absolute terms. The Evinrude manual reads (note "recommended" and "may" throughout):
Evinrude/Johnson Brand Oils
Evinrude/Johnson outboard oils are formulated
to give best engine performance while
controlling piston and combustion chamber
deposits, providing superior lubrication, and
ensuring maximum spark plug life.
The following outboard oils are recommended
for use in your Evinrude E-TEC outboard:
? Evinrude/Johnson XD100;
? Evinrude/Johnson XD50; or
? Evinrude/Johnson XD30.
Evinrude/Johnson XD100 Oil
Evinrude/Johnson XD100 oil is preferred
for your Evinrude E-TEC outboard. This
synthetic formula oil provides uncompromised
lubrication and superior performance,
even in extreme conditions?especially in
cold temperatures down to 0?F (-17?C).
If requested, an authorized dealer can program
your Evinrude E-TEC outboard EMM
for the exclusive use of Evinrude/Johnson
XD100. Only an authorized Evinrude dealer
can program your outboard for this optional
benefit.
Oil consumption is reduced if the outboard is
programmed for exclusive use of Evinrude/
Johnson XD100 as compared to using a conventional
oil.
IMPORTANT: If your EMM has been programmed
for Evinrude/Johnson XD100,
DO NOT use any other oil unless in an emergency.
If Evinrude/Johnson XD100 is temporarily
unavailable, a one-time-only use of an
oil that meets NMMA TC-W3 certification
standards is allowed. If you discontinue using
Evinrude/Johnson XD100, you MUST first return
to your Dealer to have the EMM reprogrammed
back to the original factory setting.
Other Oils
If Evinrude/Johnson brand oils are not available,
you must use an oil that meets NMMA
TC-W3 certification standards.
IMPORTANT: Failure to follow oil specifications
could void the engine warranty if a lubrication-
related failure occurs.

Mercury reads the same way:
What alternative/equivalent 2-cycle oils are available when I can't purchase Mercury Marine Precision Lubricants or Quicksilver brands of oil?

If Quicksilver or Mercury Precision Lubricants outboard oil is not available, substitute another brand of 2-cycle outboard oil that is NMMA Certified TC-W3. The use of an inferior 2-cycle outboard oil can reduce engine durability. Damage from use of inferior oil may not be covered under the limited warranty. Always consult your Operation, Maintenance & Warranty manual for additional information.

What alternative/equivalent 4-cycle oils are available when I can't purchase Mercury Marine Precision Lubricants or Quicksilver brands of oil?

If Quicksilver or Mercury Precision Lubricants 4-cycle outboard oil is not available, use a premium quality 4-cycle engine oil, certified to meet or exceed any one or a combination of the following American Petroleum Institute (API) Service Classification SH, SG, SF, CF-4, CE, CD, CDII. Always consult your Operation, Maintenance & Warranty manual for additional information concerning viscosity requirements and temperature ranges.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

They can and always have recommended the brand name lubricants. But they cannot absolutely REQUIRE it to honor their warranty,.

It's nice that you spent all that time cutting and pasting the factorys' comments on engine oil, but you did not read my post which is about the lower unit oils where the factories do not specify any alternate lubes. Their warranty statements say that if you don't use their recommended lubricants, you could lose coverage.

According to your interpretation of the MMA, both Merc and Evinrude should be in the free lower unit oil business or face massive lawsuits.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

I bought nothing but Pennzoil semi-synthetic for years, until WallyWorld stopped selling it. I then went to BRP XD-50 purchased in bulk form. I liked doing that, because it allowed me to support my local dealer, while keeping the cost down.

I am now back to the Pennzoil product, because I discovered that Academy Sports sells the 2.5 gallon jugs, just like I used to buy at Walmart. The last jug I bought (about a month ago) cost about $32. That's a little under $13 a gallon, which is considerably less than the XD-50, even in bulk.

I have had very good service from this oil and recommend it with no reservations at all.



http://www.academy.com/index.php?pa...ubricants&start=8&selectedSKU=0107-02265-3897


???

 

[trendsetter240]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

To the OP. The break in process of your new/rebuilt motor is critical to the life of your motor. Make sure that you follow the directions provided by the rebuilder. If they don't provide detailed instructions then create thread on here and get some input.

As far as oil goes, you will need to run double oil (25:1) for the first 20 hours. If the VRO is still hooked up that means you need 50:1 premix in the gas tank as well.

I also read that synthetic should not be used during the break in. I used regular TCW3 on my two rebuilds this year and both turned out excellent.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

It's nice that you spent all that time cutting and pasting the factorys' comments on engine oil, but you did not read my post which is about the lower unit oils where the factories do not specify any alternate lubes. Their warranty statements say that if you don't use their recommended lubricants, you could lose coverage.

According to your interpretation of the MMA, both Merc and Evinrude should be in the free lower unit oil business or face massive lawsuits.

I did read your post and I believe you. I never mentioned the MMA once if you read mine. You did not understand why I quoted those manuals. Not once did the manuals say the you "must" use their own brand for a good reason. Just as your quote says you "could" lose coverage, not "will" lose coverage. There are reasons why those words are used.

 

[robert graham]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

Man, what a great subject!...this could go on forever!...Like Bond-O might say, "Any oil is better than no oil at all", or something like that....

 

[Markstang]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

Oil making engines go bad.
Reminds me of the Flu shot. (impossible to get sick from)

"I got the flu shot and got sick...I aint never gettin one again"

This is all about Math and Odds.

On a given Friday out of 100,000 people, all get the Flu Shot, 1000 had gotten the cold virus on wednesday (it takes at least three days for symptoms) out of those 1000 , on Saturday , all it takes is....any of them...any....to say they got sick from the shot and it becomes true to them. To them, they did get sick (and they are sick) but they believe the shot got them sick and did it in a blistering 12 hours. The truth is they got it from that sneezing shopper at wallyworld Wednesday.

Same with the Oil example.

Some engines are about ready to go bad for what ever reason. One of you reading this is surely to have engine problems soon. All it takes is a switch of oil just before a predestined failure...and the blame is carved.

just wanted to give perspective from a person that analyzes everything into reality.

 

[pecheux]

Re: What is considered the best TCW3 oil lately?

Allright let's raise hell .... AMSOIL SABER

Mind you TCW3 "certified" is ofter mislead by "meets" TCW3 specifications ... while other mfg will write "compatible with" tcw3 specs.