what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

one more cast

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

I believe a carbine is just a short barrel rifle that is easier to maneuver in the brush. The longer barrel of a rifle is usually a little more accurate at long range.
 

Boomyal

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Their purpose is for quicker handling usually in shorter range environments than their longer counterpart.<br /><br />Historically, the cavalry used carbines because they were quicker handling and were used at shorter range. Same with jungle fighters. Many carbines were nothing more than cut down versions of their original full length rifle design. <br /><br />Some were purpose built like the M1 Carbine and I even think the M16 is considered a carbine. Others were derivatives of arms like the Sharps, the Krag Jorgensen, even a few semi official 1903 Springfield carbines and M1 Garrands. There have been many carbine variants of foreign rifles as well.
 

rolmops

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

The Carbine is a German idea.During world war 2 it became clear to the german infantry officers that by far most rifle fire exchanges were within a 200 yard distance of the target.It was therefore unneccesary to have the long barreled rifles that would allow one to take aim at 400 or 500 yards.The German mauser company developed a shorter gun thereby taking precious pounds off the weight a soldier had to carry.Other companies followed suit.These shorter guns are called carbines.
 

ratracer

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Originally posted by One More Cast:<br /> I believe a carbine is just a short barrel rifle that is easier to maneuver in the brush. The longer barrel of a rifle is usually a little more accurate at long range.
It's not because of the longer barrel per se, it's because if one is using iron sights they could expect slightly improved accuracy because the longer barrel allows for a greater distance between the front and rear sights on the rifle; supposedly the longer sight plane allows for improved accuracy. <br /><br />One other important difference is that a longer barrel length usually translates into higher muzzle velocity. Within the range of commonly found barrel lengths (and that if you're non-military the minimum legal barrel length for a carbine in the US is 16") this usually translates to a change of in the range of 50-100 fps per inch of barrel length added/removed.<br /><br />For sporting firearms, marketing types usually refer to a rifle with barrel 20" or less as a carbine, 22" is typical for a non-magnum rifle and 24-26" for a magnum rifle, but this isn't by any means a rule nor does it necessarily apply to military firearms.
 

Stumpknocker

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Well now. This was a great and interesting post. Kudos to Crab bait for the question! Caught my eye right up front. I knew I didn't have a clue and just had to know. Curiosity killed the cat they say, but this was a very enlightening post. And maybe just maybe it ain't over yet..... any other tidbits about carbines out there....?
 

Boomyal

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Originally posted by Gil009:<br /> ..... any other tidbits about carbines out there....?
Gil, the short barrel carbine will kill you just as dead as the longer barreled rifle. <br /><br />Will that do for an additional tidbit? :D
 

Fly Rod

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

:) Very good replies!!!!<br /><br />In the 30-06 I have both the long barrel and carbine semi auto!!! The differance for me is that the carbine is a quicker pointing rifle then the long barrel!!!! And they are both just as deadly at 500yds!!!!!<br /><br />When i had the 44cal. carbine which was a great rifle for me, shot a lot of deer with it, people would tell me it was only good for a brush gun and not good over a hundred yds. Well when someone would say that I would challenge them on that remark and would suggest to them to stand at 200yds. with there pants down if they only thought the carbine was only a brush gun, "Well I never had any body take me up on that challenge"!! "I wonder WhY"!!!! ;) :cool:
 

Barlow

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Originally posted by ratracer:<br />
Originally posted by One More Cast:<br /> I believe a carbine is just a short barrel rifle that is easier to maneuver in the brush. The longer barrel of a rifle is usually a little more accurate at long range.
It's not because of the longer barrel per se, it's because if one is using iron sights they could expect slightly improved accuracy because the longer barrel allows for a greater distance between the front and rear sights on the rifle; supposedly the longer sight plane allows for improved accuracy. <br /><br />One other important difference is that a longer barrel length usually translates into higher muzzle velocity. Within the range of commonly found barrel lengths (and that if you're non-military the minimum legal barrel length for a carbine in the US is 16") this usually translates to a change of in the range of 50-100 fps per inch of barrel length added/removed.<br /><br />For sporting firearms, marketing types usually refer to a rifle with barrel 20" or less as a carbine, 22" is typical for a non-magnum rifle and 24-26" for a magnum rifle, but this isn't by any means a rule nor does it necessarily apply to military firearms.
I'll add that the velocity increases/decreases per inch of barrel are relative to the burn rates of specific powders/propellants.. the barrels rifling 'dimensions' also play a role.. <br /><br />..The same is true for shotgun barrels but, velocity increases/decreases are much less generally @ 5-10fps per inch incrament.. another variable here is the shotcup (wad) and the gas seal its able to maintain.. Many of the newer shotguns are 'over-bored' and depending on your shotshell construction, specificly the shotcup, - velocities might be jeopardised due to inept profomance (expansion) of the shotcup blow-by will occur and velocities will suffer irregardless..<br /><br />hmmmm.... lol.. pardon the tangent :rolleyes:
 

tylerin

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Damn Barlow did you visit OZ over the weekend ;)
 

Barlow

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

actually ..... he came to visit me :cool: :D
 

Tinkerer

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Carbine is a descendant of a Musket in a family which involved a fair bit of shooting <br /><br /> http://www.cyberhorse.net.au/barnes/carbine/ <br /><br />which as noted in the second paragraph of the link is related to the Martini-Henry rifle, of which there was a carbine version<br /><br /> http://www.martinihenry.com/ <br /><br /><br />I hope this clears up any confusion.
 

JB

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

I think the dividing line is variable.<br /><br />Both the Springfield model 1873 "trapdoor" and the Winchester model 1894 have been available as either rifle (24" or longer barrel) or carbine (usually 18" barrel).<br /><br />I think they are equally powerful and accurate, but the longer sighting plane of rifles allows the shooter to be more accurate with a rifle.
 

gaugeguy

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

My hunting party all shoot Remington 7400's in either .308 or .30-06. Of all these hunters I am the only one with a 7400 carbine and as most have said the carbine is shorter by 4" or so. We all sight in at 100 yards and there is not any noticeable accuracy differences at that distance. The most obvious difference we see is how much louder the carbine is as opposed to the rifle.
 

Tinkerer

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Originally posted by gaugeguy:<br /> My hunting party all shoot Remington 7400's in either .308 or .30-06. Of all these hunters I am the only one with a 7400 carbine and as most have said the carbine is shorter by 4" or so. We all sight in at 100 yards and there is not any noticeable accuracy differences at that distance. The most obvious difference we see is how much louder the carbine is as opposed to the rifle.
You're lucky.<br /><br />Similar issues didn't go that well for the basic British / Australian WWI / WWII infantry weapon when reduced to a carbine. This is a very concise statement of what happened to a very reliable and serviceable weapon when cut down for jungle service.<br /><br /> http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1300/1366.htm <br /><br />Carbines are for short range accuracy 100 to 200 yards, although they'll kill well beyond that.<br /><br />Rifles extend accuracy anything up to 600 yards, more for good shots.
 

Boomyal

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Tinkerer, when I was a kid I really wanted one of those Lee Enfield Jungle Carbines. I thought they were real spiffy and they could have been had for a song. At least one of the reasons that they were so cheap was due to the total absence of surplus .303 ammunition.<br /><br />Today, the flood gates have opened on foreign supplies of surplus ammo. Not only can we buy .303, we can get 8mm Mauser, which had never been on the market either. We can also get various Russian calibers.( or is that CALIBRE :p )
 

SoulWinner

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Originally posted by JB:<br /> <br />I think they are equally powerful and accurate, but the longer sighting plane of rifles allows the shooter to be more accurate with a rifle.
Actualy JB, a carbine is less powerfull that it's longer cousin. Barrel length is part of the equation for total gas pressure generated before the projectile leaves the muzzel. The longer the barrel, the higher the gas pressure, therefore the higher the muzzel velocity, greater accuracy and higher foot pound impact. (that is to say, up to the point of diminishing returns)<br /><br />My dad has an ancient .69 calibre carbine that uses caps. It was a calvery rifle, and packs a wallup of recoil.
 

Tinkerer

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Originally posted by Boomyal:<br /> At least one of the reasons that they were so cheap was due to the total absence of surplus .303 ammunition.<br /><br />
Not where I live. When I was a kid in the 1950's and early '60's, maybe a bit later, you could buy army war surplus .303's for a song. Tons of cheap ammo because it was our standard calibre (or maybe it should be caliber :D ) and I think it could also be bought as army surplus. <br /><br />The Lee Enfield jungle carbine was certainly sought after by some people here.<br /><br />I hankered after an M1 myself. Looked very neat when wielded by Vic Morrow in "Combat".
 

Boomyal

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Re: what is a carbine opposed to a rifle

Originally posted by Tinkerer:<br />I hankered after an M1 myself. Looked very neat when wielded by Vic Morrow in "Combat". [/QB]
Kinda made you want to be a Yank for a half hour, huh? :p Yep, Combat was one of my 'must watch' shows. My TV time was tightly controlled but that one was always on my list.
 
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