weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

gardenstatesurfer

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hi,<br /><br />i have a '90 bayliner 4.3 v6 mercruiser alpha one.<br /><br />i had the starter replaced a few months ago, and just recently replaced my gimbal bearing due to bad vibration.<br /><br />on starting yesterday, a weird noise comes from the engine, kind of like a "slipping" noise...also, the engine seems to start rougher on the warm starts (it always use to crank right up after being warmed up).<br /><br />any ideas?<br /><br />thanks,<br /><br />gss
 

Bondo

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

kind of like a "slipping" noise
Going to need a Much Better discription than That, to Help You.............
 

gardenstatesurfer

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

well rather then the standard noise when you turn the key (just the engine turning over), i get a noise like a belt is slipping, then a few seconds later the engine turns over. i dont know how else to describe it. maybe the gearing in the starter?
 

vipzach

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

would you know what it sounds like if your starter is spinning, but not engaging with the flywheel?
 

olbuddyjack

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

Are all the bolts tight holding the starter in?
 

Silvertip

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

Starter not shimmed properly & starter pinion teeth are eating away at those on the flywheel.
 

gardenstatesurfer

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

thanks for the suggestions guys...is there an adjustment for the shim on the starter?
 

Don S

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

Starters haven't needed shims on boats for a million years.<br /><br />Reread Vipkzach's reply. You may just have a starter problem.
 

gardenstatesurfer

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

vipzach-im not really sure. is there any corrective measures short of pulling the starter out i can do?<br /><br />what ticks me off is i just the starter replaced a month ago. the mechanic said "well...its a new starter see if it just "settles" in after awhile."<br /><br />i dont really like that answer...if i hear a weird noise i would like to figure out what the heck it is.<br /><br />how about the other issue, rough starting...what should i check first? plugs?
 

gardenstatesurfer

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

ok guys, thought of a better way to describe this mysterious noise i hear while starting...its kind of like when you turn the key in a car when the engine is already running...
 

Don S

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

Probably have damaged teeth on the ring gear on the flywheel. Pull the starter and look at the teeth on the gear.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

I would pull it out if you can get to it,(only two bolts) and look at the teeth on drive gear to see if there is wear. Then I would take it to a rebuild shop & have them look at it. It may not be getting pushed out far enough in the 'start' position. You don't want to bugger up your flywheel with a bad starter or you're in for a world of hurt. ($).........JK
 

Peter J Fraser

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

Sounds like one of 3 possibilities.<br />A/ Solenoid is not pulling the pinion fully into mesh<br />B/ Pinion has wrong tooth count and cant mesh properly with the ring gear.<br />C/ Pinion clutch is slipping.<br /><br />None of those above will fix themselves.<br />Off with the starter.<br /><br />Peter
 

Silvertip

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

Because a shim was not used previously, doesn't mean it isn't needed when installing a replacement starter. Of the course the entire point is moot if its not an interference issue.
 

Don S

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

Upinsmoke<br />Please explain the procedures of checking the shimming on a starter on a late 80's, early 90's Chevy engine, and provide some information on where to find this information. <br />Must be in some GM manual somewhere, because it's not in any Mercruiser or Volvo OEM manual I have ever seen or read.
 

kimchee

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

Is there anyway to find out if it is a flywheel problem vs. a starter problem without removing the starter???<br /><br />I understand that when there is a starter issue... 95% of the time it is a problem with the actual starter, and NOT the flywheel... Can you guys confirm this ???
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

No!
 

Peter J Fraser

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

A pre-engaged starter is usually easy on the ring gear as the starter pinion is in mesh BEFORE the current is applied to the starter armature.<br />The noises you describe are more than likely coming from the starter than the ring gear.<br />Anyway the starter is easier to get off than the ring gear and you can inspect the teeth on the ring gear when the starter is out of the way.<br /><br />Peter
 

Phantom17

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

woah, woah woah, here we go again. Last time I read one of these we were pulling motors out to check couplings....... You said you had the starter replaced and the tech said the sound would go away, right? <br /><br />"what ticks me off is i just the starter replaced a month ago. the mechanic said "well...its a new starter see if it just "settles" in after awhile." <br /><br />His problem. Don't start tearing the boat apart because anything he would do to correct the problem is now null and void. He did it wrong, used the wrong starter, whatever the problem is, if it wasn't there before "HE" fixed it, then he needs to repair it correctly. Have you spoken to him yet? Good luck.
 

Silvertip

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Re: weird "slipping" noise while starting, starting getting harder...

There are very few times a shim(s) are needed but it is immediately obvious when they are. You won't find it in most GM service manuals as the problem tends to occur only with rebuilt or after market starters. There is a pinion tooth to flywheel tooth spec which could be checked with the engine out of the boat and the starter installed. I'll dig that spec out and post it. I want to say it's around .030" but don't hold me to that. The good thing is that the starter need only be loosened to slip the shim in, provided the one bolt hole is notched. As far as I know, there is only one thickness and I've never had to use more than one shim to solve the problem. To complicate matters, there is no way on most boats to view the pinion/flywheel engagement so its a "try it and see" situation. The telltale sign is a "grinding" sound during rotation, not the "teeth being chewed up screech" noise a pinion makes when its not fully engaging the flywheel. The reason some starters require shimming is due to "build-up of tolerances" which is engineering speak for you have a bunch of parts that are all at the upper or lower end of their manufacturing tolerance (or out of tolerance) and the combination creates interference. Flywheel OD at max, starter pinion at max OD, starter housing at min OD, and block mounting surface at minimum all combine to place the pinion closer to the crankshaft centerline. In practice, if those specs are met, the starter should work without shimming. However, inspection of every piece-part no longer occurs either at the manufacturer or upon receipt at the end user. That, and the fact one never knows where individual parts come from these days, it's quite possible for a rebuilt starter to fit too well so to speak. Generally a single shim between the starter and the block is all that's needed to quiet things down. In my opinion, the main culprit is the starter mounting housing. Those starters get rebuilt over and over and some shrinkage is inevitable.
 
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