Water pump snafoo!!

[Tim Frank]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

I've had mixed results with easy-outs. You can try using one, you need to have patience while using it. Most of the time when I've used them, if the bolts really locked into place, the easy-out will become overwhelmed and just open up the hole you drilled in the broken bolt.

^^^ +1.

Like others have suggested, re-tap the threads when your done. You need a tap for a blind hole which will get the threads all the way at the bottom.

Called plug tap or bottoming tap.

I would suggest using some white lithium grease on the tap flutes to both lubricate the tap and collect any metal shavings made by cleaning the threads. You want to twist the tap in a couple turns at a time, then back it out. DO NOT force the tap or you will easily break it off. It is hardened steel, so it is brittle.

So are most easyouts...that's why they snap and are so tough to drill out afterwards.

 

[Hoyt79]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

Ok...going to my local Fastenal at lunch to nip this thing in the bud. I have had many, many suggestions to fix this. I think I am going to hand the guy one of the other bolts so I can get that replaced and then ask for a left handed drill bit to get that piece of bolt out and a blind tap that will re-tap it the same size the hole is? And, if all goes well, when I am re-installing everything I think I will do just as good at sealing by putting a dap around the head of the bolt after I have threaded it almost all the way down.

 

[wifisher]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

Ok...going to my local Fastenal at lunch to nip this thing in the bud. I have had many, many suggestions to fix this. I think I am going to hand the guy one of the other bolts so I can get that replaced and then ask for a left handed drill bit to get that piece of bolt out and a blind tap that will re-tap it the same size the hole is? And, if all goes well, when I am re-installing everything I think I will do just as good at sealing by putting a dap around the head of the bolt after I have threaded it almost all the way down.

No you won't. It is supposed to seal the threads, not just the head.

 

[AlTn]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

just use the proper sealant and paint it on the threads, the BRP is a nonhardening formulation and helps protect against corrision

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

Ok...going to my local Fastenal at lunch to nip this thing in the bud. I have had many, many suggestions to fix this. I think I am going to hand the guy one of the other bolts so I can get that replaced and then ask for a left handed drill bit to get that piece of bolt out and a blind tap that will re-tap it the same size the hole is? And, if all goes well, when I am re-installing everything I think I will do just as good at sealing by putting a dap around the head of the bolt after I have threaded it almost all the way down.

A PLUG tap (or Bottoming)...not a "blind" tap.
If Fastenal is mainly a fastener supplier, they may or may NOT have that tap. A machine tool supplier may be needed.

Re: sealing...you said you had the manual, why not just follow the directions in that?....

 

[Hoyt79]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

Ok...plug tap or bottoming tap and sealer back on the threads.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

You'll be on the water tomorrow!!...

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

So are most easyouts...that's why they snap and are so tough to drill out afterwards.

Yep, I don't bother drilling them either. If they break I will shatter the rest of them out with a sharp chisel and start thinking about a Helli-coil or big sert for the threads.

 

[Hoyt79]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

This is what I could come up with...not much to choose from where I live. I have a regular 1/8" drill bit for metal to drill as starter hole, then I have an 'easy out' extractor to go in after hole is drilled and then I have a tap to clean out the threads. Hope it works.

How much is a helicoil to put in the hole, I am kinda thinkin about this option a little more...also, shattering it out with a chisel, wouldn't this put undo stress on the threads?

 

[wifisher]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

This is what I could come up with...not much to choose from where I live. I have a regular 1/8" drill bit for metal to drill as starter hole, then I have an 'easy out' extractor to go in after hole is drilled and then I have a tap to clean out the threads. Hope it works.

How much is a helicoil to put in the hole, I am kinda thinkin about this option a little more...also, shattering it out with a chisel, wouldn't this put undo stress on the threads?

A helicoil is not too expensive. Been a while since I bought one, but $20ish. You do need the bolt out before you can do this. The helicoil relys on the proper hole size and tap before you can install it.

Shattering the broken ez-out with a chisel is a last ditch operation. It will put a lot of stress on the metal, but it is the last option before throwing the part in the scrap bin.

IMHO 1/8" is not a large enough hole to even try an ez-out. The bigger the hole is that it can grab onto, the better your chance of success.

If you are having trouble finding the correct bits, helicoils, etc. Try Mcmaster.com They will have the parts to you in one buisness day in most parts of the U.S. And the shipping charges are reasonable.

 

[recon c32]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

Armstrong Eaze Out want break takes patiences if in dought find an old part around the shop lawn mower or what every and have at it Ive used ease outs years Armstrong is price e but tuffer than woodpecker lips my set is 26 years old and have not replaced one yet Also Ind. supply sales an air vibrateing tool will sometime back the bolt out after you drill a hole thru good luck

 

[sandersps]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

OK, so her is my big errogant speech of the week.

Facts.
1)The bolt broke because the hole was filled with corrosion when the bolt was removed. If the sealer was hydro locking then then threads were still corroded enough to not allow the sealer to expell and the bolt would have been hard to run all the way not just at the bottom.

2)center punching the old broken bolt takes a steady hand and patience.

3)left hand drills only back out bolts that will turn easy in the hole.

4) ez-outs are as brittle as taps thats how they grab the mild steel that bolts are made of and dont just slip and gald. Being brittle, they require patience and a steady hand.

5)Re-tapping the hole requires removing the old bolt perfectly with a drill bit and removing the thread. If your drill walks to one side just a bit then your tap will most likely remove the old threads rather then clean them.

6)Drilling a steel bolt in an alumminum house will almost lead to the drill walking into the alumminum. One is softer than the other.

7)Since you forced the old bolt untill it broke, then you MAY not have the patience that it requires to use a tap or ez-out or left hand drill.

8)Trying to shatter a tap, drill or ez-out in alumminum will result more damage than you had before. Because the tool is very hard and the housing is soft you will never get a hard enough hit on it to shatter.

Now to the good stuff. In your case the best solution would be remove the housing and put vise grips on the stub sticking out. If this is not possible then either take it to a machine shop or use a helicoil. If you use a helicoil then file or grind the stub down to a flat suurface before you center punch. Just be sure not to remove any alumminum.

This is not to say that others have not gone against my opinions ( and thats all they are, based on ten years of machine shop experience.) and gotten lucky a time or two.

Oh and I almost forgot, Port, port is wine, wine is red, red is port.

 

[Sixmark]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

OK, so her is my big errogant speech of the week.

Facts.
1)The bolt broke because the hole was filled with corrosion when the bolt was removed. If the sealer was hydro locking then then threads were still corroded enough to not allow the sealer to expell and the bolt would have been hard to run all the way not just at the bottom.

2)center punching the old broken bolt takes a steady hand and patience.

3)left hand drills only back out bolts that will turn easy in the hole.

4) ez-outs are as brittle as taps thats how they grab the mild steel that bolts are made of and dont just slip and gald. Being brittle, they require patience and a steady hand.

5)Re-tapping the hole requires removing the old bolt perfectly with a drill bit and removing the thread. If your drill walks to one side just a bit then your tap will most likely remove the old threads rather then clean them.

6)Drilling a steel bolt in an alumminum house will almost lead to the drill walking into the alumminum. One is softer than the other.

7)Since you forced the old bolt untill it broke, then you MAY not have the patience that it requires to use a tap or ez-out or left hand drill.

8)Trying to shatter a tap, drill or ez-out in alumminum will result more damage than you had before. Because the tool is very hard and the housing is soft you will never get a hard enough hit on it to shatter.

Now to the good stuff. In your case the best solution would be remove the housing and put vise grips on the stub sticking out. If this is not possible then either take it to a machine shop or use a helicoil. If you use a helicoil then file or grind the stub down to a flat suurface before you center punch. Just be sure not to remove any alumminum.

This is not to say that others have not gone against my opinions ( and thats all they are, based on ten years of machine shop experience.) and gotten lucky a time or two.

Oh and I almost forgot, Port, port is wine, wine is red, red is port.

I don't know, I have drilled out well over a hundred bolts of various types and conditions from an aluminum housing with excellent results on all of them, preperation, patience, and skill are important no matter which option you choose. A person needs to assess their abilties and make a decision on if they can do it or not, if they try and don't succeed then they know for the next time. If they choose to have someone else do it, then there is no shame there either.

 

[Hoyt79]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

Well this is just DANDY...I freakin boogered this thing up, got into the aluminum a little!!! I am beside myself and am in no mood for someone to be around right now. How much is it gonna cost me to take the whole dadgum lower unit to a machine shop? I am thinking of just running it with three bolts in it, it was sitting firmly enough on the water pump plate that in my opinion it would probably be ok, and yes I understand it has four bolts for a reason, but that doesn't mean that it can't run with three, I don't forsee it gusing water out the side of the water pump because of one bolt. Furthermore to clarify why this happened. It's not because I am some city slicker with glasses and just went and purchased his first socket set. I thought back and realize that the bolts were lying on my concrete porch floor with sand, dust, dirt, etc and I wasn't thinking about it and picked them up one at a time and covered them with the gasket sealer and then proceeded to install them and I know for a fact that is what happened with this bolt...

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

I have run them with three before. I used sealer to "glue" down both the plate and housing and had no problems. That is really not a high stress/high heat area around the water pump as the screws are mainly just trying to prevent rotation of the housing.
I have also used JB Weld or Devcon and tapped it for those water pump screws. It's pretty common in salt water engines to have them get boogered up. IMHO those screws are undersized for something that is wet all of the time, but there is just not a heck of a lot of room down there for bigger ones....

 

[Hoyt79]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

I have run them with three before. I used sealer to "glue" down both the plate and housing and had no problems. That is really not a high stress/high heat area around the water pump as the screws are mainly just trying to prevent rotation of the housing.
I have also used JB Weld or Devcon and tapped it for those water pump screws. It's pretty common in salt water engines to have them get boogered up. IMHO those screws are undersized for something that is wet all of the time, but there is just not a heck of a lot of room down there for bigger ones....

I appreciate that response...that gasket maker/sealer RV blue stuff I was using had everything nice and solid and when that bolt brok off I sat there for a minute and thought about just leaving it like it was. Going to scrape all the old sealer off and bolt it back down with three bolts.

 

[sandersps]

Re: Water pump snafoo!!

But look at the good in the situation. Now you have some first hand experience with this type of issue. Like Sixmark said he has drilled hundreds. Every timeyou will learn a little more. Did you try drilling? If you just got into the alumminum a little you might still be able to use a helicoil. Oh, I dont know if it was directed at me or not but, I wasent trying to make you sound like a "City Slicker" if it was taken that way then I am terribly sorry.