Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

[rs2k]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

Please take a look at the OPs posts. He says the oil gets milky...emulsified!!!!

I had the same problem last week. I am giving the OP my solution. It worked for me. My broken engine drank 25 gallons of fuel while buzzing all over the lake without a hiccup yesterday.

Not bad for supposedly having a cracked block (According to others who tried to help).

I must admit I thought it had a cracked block too at first.

 

[rs2k]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

I agree. Its not a solution.

I still challenge you to get the water out of an emulsion. If you could do that, we would not have the problems we have with water and ethanol emulsions. You could be a gazillionaire.

Heating up the oil to a point above the boiling temperature of water did the trick. The vacuum did lower the boiling point, albeit slightly.

You could see the steam coming out of the engine when the boiling point was hit.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

I must admit I thought it had a cracked block too at first.

Did you try to pressure test the coolant passages in the block?

 

[rs2k]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

No, I was at the same position the OP was in. I did not have the proper tools to conduct the test and was already planning on replacing the block. I bought the boat under the impression the block was cracked. A compression check showed a leak in between three cylinders. 1, 3, and 5. I pulled the head and found a blown head gasket and water in the cylinders. After checking the head and block and replacing the head gasket I was still getting water in the oil. The cause was a bad exhaust manifold. After fixing that problem and changing the oil AND oil filter, it looked like I was still getting water in the oil. My next step was to make a pressure tester but decided to play around a bit more instead. I went ahead and changed the oil and filter again and boil the rest of the water out of the engine. After a few hours on the lake, the oil still looks like I just pored it in.

I figured I had nothing to loose.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

His riser change may have worked already. He may need to change the oil up to 3 times to get all of the water out.

Hopefully, he used a new gasket on his riser replacement or all bets are off.

 

[piasajake]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

Yes, I got the riser kit and it came with a new gasket. When I was letting it run, I wasn't letting it idle. I let it run at about 2000 rpm for about 30 min. After a while you could see steam coming from the breather tube. I can change out the oil a few more times and see how that works.

Is there a way that I could pressure test the block without special equipment or is there something I can rig up to do it? Does it involve taking the head off or other major parts of the motor?

Thanks!

 

[rs2k]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

When I had engine trouble on my other boat last year, I found out how to pressure test the block. To pressure test the engine you have to first completely close the cooling system. This means you have to cap the water outlets at the thermostat housing. You can then hook up a pressure tester that you can rent from autozone. The tool you get from autozone is designs for a radiator, however. You can take it to lowes or home depot and figure out how to go from the quick disconnects on the pressure tester to the one inch hole on the thermostat housing.

It's kind of a hassle, but it will tell you for sure if you have a cracked block, cracked head, or blown head gasket.

 

[rs2k]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

You have to go to Lowes or Home Depot and make an adapter that looks kind of like this:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=43960


This is kind of what the autozone rental tool looked like:

http://www.ace1252.com/images/cooling_pressure_tester.JPG

 

[piasajake]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

Is there somewhere where I could get a step by step instructions on how to do the pressure test? I have a manual, but haven't checked to see if that is covered in it.

 

[rs2k]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

All you really have to do is connect the pressure tester, pump it up to the correct PSI, then let it sit a few hours and see if the pressure changes. I'm not sure what PSI you want to test it at. I have been told 10 - 12 PSI (normal pressure for coolant system in a closed system), and I have also been told 40 PSI. I'll let someone else comment on this.

 

[piasajake]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

Are there any other possible locations that water could get into the oil, like the thermostat housing or the engine water pump? I just want to make sure.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

All you really have to do is connect the pressure tester, pump it up to the correct PSI, then let it sit a few hours and see if the pressure changes. I'm not sure what PSI you want to test it at. I have been told 10 - 12 PSI (normal pressure for coolant system in a closed system), and I have also been told 40 PSI. I'll let someone else comment on this.

10-15psi is plenty. It should hold more but doesn't need to. There's very little pressure on an open cooled system.

When you pressure test you need to isolate the exhaust manifold(s) on the engine. Leave the intake manifold on a V-x engine.

If it's an inline engine. you have to disconnect the hoses to the combined intake/exhaust manifold because there's not an easy way to seal the riser. You could remove the riser and put a plate over the open flange to "cap" it, but if it was leaking into the exhaust, you wouldn't see it. You'd have to remove it and set it up off the engine to do that. And then it could be leaking at the cap you just put on.

Once you disconnect the exhaust/(intake on an inline) you can completely close the cooling system and pressure it up. If it still leaks, you probably have a cracked block.

 

[rs2k]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

Are there any other possible locations that water could get into the oil, like the thermostat housing or the engine water pump? I just want to make sure.

Not on that engine.

 

[rs2k]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

If it still leaks, you probably have a cracked block.

It is also possible to have a cracked or warped head or blown head gasket. The head can have have cracks too small to see that can still show up under a pressure test.

 

[piasajake]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

I was finally able to rig up some hardware to do the recomended pressure test. I took the riser off and capped the manifold off with a plate and made a sheet rubber gasket between the plate and the manfold. I put it up to 40 psi and it took 45 min or so to get down to 20 psi. It seems to be holding or at least slowing if it is leaking somewhere. I'm going to leave the pressure on it and see if it all drops out. I also sprayed some soapy water on all the places I thought a leak could show & didn't see any. It did hear a noise once in a while that sounded like it could have been a drip falling inside somewhere possibly, or a faint tap.

It seems to be holding at 20 psi after an hour.

Any diagnosis so far or what would be my next step?

 

[rs2k]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

You have to be 100% sure that your external caps are holding. If you are 100% sure that all of your external caps are holding and you get any pressure drop at all then you have a leak inside your engine somewhere.

If you have an internal leak then it can only come from a few places:

cracked block,
cracked head,
warped head,
bad exhaust manifold riser seal,
blown head gasket


This is only for internal leaks. You may still have external leaks.



I would recommended removing the exhaust manifold from the equation. Remove and cap the line that goes to the exhaust manifold at the point it leaves the thermostat cover.

 

[piasajake]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

I'm pretty sure the caps aren't leaking. The manifold is brand new. It was replaced after the water in the oil problem showed up. The riser is brand new too. The head gasket is new. All new gaskets associated with the head, manifold, and riser. The old head gasket didn't show any signs of damage or leaking. There was no visible cracks in the head at that time either. The only thing that was noticable was that it looked like water was getting in cylinder 2 (2nd one back from front). The head was replaced about 10 years ago when it cracked from overheating from the impeller on the fresh water pumps fins breaking off.
It had a new cam put in a few years ago and timing gears/chain, but it ran fine that whole season, until the end when the water in the oil showed up.

Should I just take it to a shop and have them figure it out or take the head off and have it checked? If it turns out to be the block, it sounds pretty much like a new long block is needed? Would rather put the troubleshooting money towards a new long block.

 

[cr2k]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

140s crack the block between 2 and 3 and/or top edge inside the cyls. Sometimes it's not visible. They also crack the heads around the valve seats (any cyl.). Warped block (head surface) is common and causes water in the oil. Have your head magna fluxed or checked by a shop for surface and cracks. If it's ok most likely your block. Straight edge on a CLEAN block head surface and see how bad (not if) it's warped.

use a thick head gasket not a shim.

Check with a marine salvage place you may find a complete engine for a decent price, and it doesn't matter if its a MC or an OMC just use your coupler and bell housing off the MC.

compression test showing bad in 2 or 3 is a big telltale.

last option hijack an older mail jeep and swap the engine out.

 

[galaxian]

Re: Water In Oil - Exhaust Riser?

This was an interesting post to read. I was having the same problem with and OMC 5.7L. Not knowing enough about boats, I didn't know where to start. At the same time I had lost reverse. The previous owner had replaced the shift cable so I never dreamed there were any problems with that... So.. I took of the drive.... Well... Turns out,when he cut the cable and installed it, he left a bur on the steel casing... which was getting hung up on the shift assembly. Anywho, When I took the drive off, I found the flappers in the the exhaust bellows. Now, to get to them to replace them, I had to take off the risers... and... Plain as day you could see one was leaking "lake" water bad... I replaced the flappers, all seals, changed the oil and filter, and fired her up... I still noticed a small amount of water in the oil... So.. You're saying that the water was "hung up" in the small ports???... Letting the motor get hot, removing the oil caps off each valve cover, and steaming the water isn't enough?..I changed the oil and filter again today... Going back on the lake and will see what happens... Thanks for the post... I love this place...lol