Water in oil AGAIN !!??

[justright1998]

I just recently had my twin 7.4,s rebuilt from the heads up. Had the heads machined........new manifoldss ....risers ..new gaskets etc. I then put about 50 miles on them.no problems whatsoever. I checked the oil after each run ..gauges all stayes where they should be untill my last trip out> As we were about three milkles from my hhome doock, my wife (nervous nelly) said what was that? I didn't notice anything untill I glanced at my synchronizer and just as I did, my starboard side was just coming back up to "par". It couldn't have been for more than two seconds by the time she noticed something wasn't "right" untill it they "evened out". We continued to our destination (about another two miles) without a problem. On the way home after running about another four miles with no problems.....The starboard engine bogged down. I opened the engine compartment and noticed a "clacking" noise" (sounds like a rocker) toward the front of the engine. They are V drives so it would appear to be the back. I turned off the engine and we returned on the other. My first thought was that maybe I had some sluge residue drawn up into one of the valves etc and it was keeping the oil from reaching that particular area. I decided to empty the oil and any additional sludge i could get to and replace it with a light weight oil and new filter to start from scratch and empty once again.. I ran the engine for approximately 30 minutes at my dock to circulate the new oil through the entire engine . The oil pressure was good , temp etc the Manifolds and risers didn't get hot.
The block is fresh water cooled, The manifolds and risers are saltwater cooled. When I emptied the oil......You guessed it....It looked like a vanilla shake. Before I go on the normal assumption of a blown head gasket and start ripping this engine completely apart,, I just was wonering if anyone would know if there was any other way I could have drawn in the water. New manifold or riser gaskets didn't seat well, Oil cooler etc? Antifreeze level seems OK so I am going on the assumption that it is saltwater in the oil. TNX in advance. sorry for any typos.......I left my glasses at the marina ;(

 

[Fordiesel69]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

have oil analysed to see if coolant or if it is saltwater.

Otherwise you will not know if it from the risers or from the engine.

 

[justright1998]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

I checked the level on the heat exchanger.....seems perfect, but I guess having it analysed would make it definate. but if it is saltwater, could that be draWn in throught the manifolds or riserS ETC???

 

[Fordiesel69]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

Typically when the engine is operating no. But when off, it can drip into exhaust ports and run into the cylinders on that bank and cause a milkshake. Although rare, it did happpen to my 4cyl engine when people said it was impossible. I almost tore the engine down but decided to try the manifold and it never happened again. (2 yrs ago).

 

[justright1998]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

tnx 4 the replies. Also...... the oil I took out was like milk and I mean almost white..........it was after they were idleing at about 1000 RPM at the dock for a half hour and I was told to try using "marvel mystery oil" (not that I think it does much but the mechanic that had done most of work said I should try it) and it was with brand new oil. thus causing the very white appearence instead of milk chocalate I guess. I had already changed the oil quite a few times in order to try and get as much "sludge" out as possible. I just wasn't sure how else water could be getting drawn in besides a head gasket (hopefully not)

 

[justright1998]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

If anybody has any other opinions, I would greatly appreciate it TNX

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

Typically when the engine is operating no. But when off, it can drip into exhaust ports and run into the cylinders on that bank and cause a milkshake.

It takes a fair amount of water to make a "milkshake"

I had a similar problem with riser gaskets leaking on BOTH sides. Water ran from both risers into open exhaust valves and caused a hydrolock if I tried to start the engine less than 30 min after shutdown. (like stopping to pick up a skier)

If I let it sit an hour or so it would usually start right up.

It was enough water to cause a hydrolock but not enough to be visible in the oil. I ran it like that for a couple of months.....

If manifolds or risers leak when running, the water just gets blown out with the exhaust. Unless you have a BIG crack in one or both manifolds the amount of water from the risers would be that amount ABOVE the riser gasket.......maybe a cup from each side.

so If the leak is a slow one, not ALL of the water in the (possibly) leaking riser runs back into that open exhaust valve. Some would just leak past the rings but if the engine is broken in it doesn't ALL leak past the rings (hence the hydrolock in my case) My engine wasn't worn out but it wasn't new either.....

You possibly have a path for water to get directly into the oil.

Cracked head(s), cracked block.......... (that the machine shop DIDN'T detect), Cracked/corroded intake manifold (in it's small water jacket) , leaking manifold gasket.............leaking water into "the valley".

For enough water to get past the rings, it would have to leak all night from FULL manifold.....and if you have cracked manifold(s)/riser(s) or leaking gaskets AND all is below the waterline, water could get in that way but the engine would be SERIOUSLY hydrolocked when you tried to start it!


You also might have had water intrusion prior to starting your engine and it didn't turn to "milk" until it ran long enough.....

but running fine and all of a sudden you get clacking lifters, should indicate that the water wasn't there when you started out.......it happened after running "fine" for a while..........that much water doesn't get into the crankcase via "above the pistons" (unless you have no rings....or broken rings.....)


Oil cooler possibly. the water can get in because the oil coolers are frequently below the water line. The water will run right into the engine.....but NOT when running......

With a fresh top overhaul, YOU DID check your oil before starting didn't you? was the oil level higher than after the oil was changed?

A slightly higher level would reveal "something" else in the oil before you started......


Things to think about.....


Rick

 

[justright1998]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

As far as the oil coolers........that has been my next thought. I have been advised by many that may be causing the water problem. Could a "broken (Corroded) oil" cooler allow a lot of seawater to be pulled into the engine at a very quick pace when running or is that not possible? The "clacking" may be a totally differant issue (loose rocker ..."fouled" plug etc) or can it be a result of insufficient lubrication due to the water in the oil? I also believe that one plug is not firing correctly because I can smell some raw gas in the exaust and it feels like it is running on seven cylinders. I followed the wires to the area where I was hearing the noise and when I remove that particular wire from the distrutor cap, it basically has no effect as compared to any of the others when removed cause the engine to just about stall. Really at a loss here. What I really would like to know is it possible that I have been very slowly drawing in water enough to burn off or not notice by dipstick untill a major malfuction or breach in an oil cooler ocurred? TNX again

 

[dubs283]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

i would be very suspect of an engine oil cooler failure here

it is very possible for water to enter the oil system runnning or not with a faulty cooler, and fairly easy to diagnose - simply disconnect and remove the cooler and inspect it

as far as "analyzing" the oil for saltwater, you already have an analyzer - your tongue, if it tastes salty, its saltwater, if not its coolant

 

[justright1998]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

Tnx for the quick reply........I am just about positive that it is saltwater because when I checked the heat exchanger for that particular engine, it was full to the "brim" with antifreeze and there was close to an extra quart of oil (and water) after idling at 1000 PM for about 30 minutes (after changing the oil when we returned) which has me leaning towards a problem with the oil cooler. They are due for replacement anyway so I will change them no matter what. One thing that seems strange is that when the engines were first fired up after they were "rebuilt", that same "clacking" noise ocurred in the same area within the engine for about 20 seconds and then completely dissapeared after the oil circulated and reached that point. Hopefully lack of lubrication due to the water was the cause of that as well. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[dubs283]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

when the engines were first fired up after they were "rebuilt", that same "clacking" noise ocurred in the same area within the engine for about 20 seconds and then completely dissapeared after the oil circulated and reached that point.

probably the lifters had drained down and it took a bit for the oil pressure to fill em, the clacking was more than likely the rods smackin between the rockers and lifters - no big deal

 

[justright1998]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

During the initial start after the engine was rebuilt I assumed the same and was not concerned........my concern now is that after replaceing the oil, the "clacking" continued for the entire thirty minutes I ran the engine at dockside as the engine drew in more water. Is this due to lack of lubrication for that entire time because the oil became contaminated with water so fast ? or because that cylinder seems to now be not "firing" properly as I previously mentioned within an earlier post?........or could something have been damaged?

 

[Don S]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

Remove, drain, and pressure test the oil cooler. They do fail.

 

[justright1998]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

TNX I have them on order. They were due (overdue) anyway They are just about the only things I haven't replaced yet from the heads up. (besides alternaters) I guess I will have to take it from there...........I thought boats were supposed to be enjoyable lol ( I guess I can't complain I have had it for over 10 years without a problem while only changing the manifolds and risers once back in 2006)

 

[Don S]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

TNX I have them on order.

Ordered what ???? If the cooler, did you test it first or just throwing money at it with great hopes?

 

[justright1998]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

The only reason I ordered them is because they are saltwater cooled and were overdue and needed to be changed regardless so I wouldn't consider that as throwing my money into the wind. If this is the cause of my problem I still am unsure. I am going to get the engine pressure checked today etc and work my way up from there.. TNX

 

[justright1998]

Re: Water in oil AGAIN !!??

TNX for everyones input..........Turned out that I had two problems at once. Salt water was getting to a spark plug which was causing the plug not to fire. (Water was getting in through a valve that was not completely closing) thus causing that "clacking noise" I dried off the plug and reinstalled it and it sounded fine but there is still a "breach" .I also had a rocker that had "backed off". As it turns out ......the oil cooler had also "failed" allowing a lot of water to contaminate the oil in a hurry as well. Having both oil coolers and Transmission coolers replaced (saltwater cooled and "overdue"also) before I run into anymore problems as well as whatever has to be done regarding the valves. I got to the point of "here's the boat....Make it "better". After spending $1200 last week to fill up my tanks at todays fuel prices........The price of all four coolers and labor didn't seems as bad as it would have a few years ago. BOAT= "break out another thousand" TNX again