Water in Oil (Again) Head Scratcher

[AMMO DAWG]

I have a 2006 Sea Ray 185 Sport that I have been repowering from a 3.0 to a 4.3 and have an issue I just can't seem to resolve. Awhile back I found a donor 4.3 and outdrive and had the engine rebuilt at a machine shop I have used in the past. I purchased a set of aftermarket exhaust manifolds (not dry type) and risers and ran it on the hose to try and dial everything in. I went to check the oil one day and it was milky white. I also noticed it was dripping oil at the timing chain cover so I pulled the engine and returned it to the machine shop thinking I had an issue with a head gasket or worse. I watched the old boy who owns the machine shop tear it down reassemble the engine, do a blow down check on every cylinder and pressure check the cooling system, all was good. I also pressure checked the manifold, and they held pressure.

Fast forward after putting the engine back in the boat, ran it a bit and came out the other day and milky oil. I drained the oil and was surprised at the amount of water that came out prior to the any oil. Pulled the port riser and there was water as I looked down in the exhaust portion. Pulled the starboard side and no water, however when I pulled the exhaust manifolds and plugs water came out of all cylinders on both sides.

So, I don't know where to go from here. Is it possible that the manifold/risers are letting the water in the cylinders? I was going to pressure check the system one more time and leaning toward pulling the heads to make sure I get all the water out of the cylinders. We had some crazy rain storms, however the breather was on and the sundeck closed so I can't imagine rain water getting in. Not sure where to go from here, think the engine is salvable if I can get the water out? Thanks in advance.

 

[Lou C]

Well if you found water in the bottom of the manifold after removing the elbow yes but: ideally drain the exhaust first since a full manifold can spill over into the center exhaust passage when you remove the elbow…that way any water you see there was likely due to a leak.
Yes it’s savable if you get the water out…but do it right a way & change oil & filter till it’s clear. Leaks with wet exhaust design are common.
Did you measure the sealing surfaces with a straight edge & feeler gauges before installing? Some aftermarket parts need to be dressed with a mill bastard file so they are flat to less than .003” thickness variation.

 

[kenny nunez]

It appears that one of manifolds or a riser is the source of the water. The reason that water is on both sides is the exhaust passage under the intake will cause water to be on both sides. Blow out the water by spinning it over then spray oil in each spark plug hole. I do not think the engine itself is the problem.

 

[Lou C]

When I installed my Barr Marine exhaust the sealing surfaces were flat to .001”, excellent

 

[Scott Danforth]

measure the riser to SWL. should be 14" or more. if not, you need risers

 

[Scott06]

I have a 2006 Sea Ray 185 Sport that I have been repowering from a 3.0 to a 4.3 and have an issue I just can't seem to resolve. Awhile back I found a donor 4.3 and outdrive and had the engine rebuilt at a machine shop I have used in the past. I purchased a set of aftermarket exhaust manifolds (not dry type) and risers and ran it on the hose to try and dial everything in. I went to check the oil one day and it was milky white. I also noticed it was dripping oil at the timing chain cover so I pulled the engine and returned it to the machine shop thinking I had an issue with a head gasket or worse. I watched the old boy who owns the machine shop tear it down reassemble the engine, do a blow down check on every cylinder and pressure check the cooling system, all was good. I also pressure checked the manifold, and they held pressure.

Fast forward after putting the engine back in the boat, ran it a bit and came out the other day and milky oil. I drained the oil and was surprised at the amount of water that came out prior to the any oil. Pulled the port riser and there was water as I looked down in the exhaust portion. Pulled the starboard side and no water, however when I pulled the exhaust manifolds and plugs water came out of all cylinders on both sides.

So, I don't know where to go from here. Is it possible that the manifold/risers are letting the water in the cylinders? I was going to pressure check the system one more time and leaning toward pulling the heads to make sure I get all the water out of the cylinders. We had some crazy rain storms, however the breather was on and the sundeck closed so I can't imagine rain water getting in. Not sure where to go from here, think the engine is salvable if I can get the water out? Thanks in advance.

Two or three thoughts is the intake rotted out under the thermostat or leaking at intake to head joint. Could pressure test the cooling system to rule this out.

Other thought is water coming up the exhaust did u verify the riser height is 15” above the water line? Is it possible u are getting reversion ? Is it a stock cam or hi performance

 

[AMMO DAWG]

Thanks all, I haven't had it in the water yet, unfortunately been busy pulling and installing the engine and never got it out to the bayou. Since I haven't had it in the water with the 4.3 not sure where the water line is. Is there any harm putting a spacer in even if it takes it above 14"? I was going to pressure check the cooling system again to be sure as well as another leak down check. I will let you know what I find. I hate spending more money on manifolds and risers but it would be a relief if the engines okay. Thanks again, and please let me know if there are any other things I should check.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Is there any harm putting a spacer in even if it takes it above 14"?

14" is the minimum distance.

measure first before spending beer money

 

[Lou C]

Rotted intake will put water right in the motor oil but not in cyls.

 

[Scott06]

Thanks all, I haven't had it in the water yet, unfortunately been busy pulling and installing the engine and never got it out to the bayou. Since I haven't had it in the water with the 4.3 not sure where the water line is. Is there any harm putting a spacer in even if it takes it above 14"? I was going to pressure check the cooling system again to be sure as well as another leak down check. I will let you know what I find. I hate spending more money on manifolds and risers but it would be a relief if the engines okay. Thanks again, and please let me know if there are any other things I should check.

If you have not had it on the water distance from water line to the top of risers cant be the cause. If you have the factory parts manual for your boat it will tell u in the engine section if a 4.3 comes with risers. My 200 sport said 5.0 w rsr …

hold your money for now pressure test cooling system.

 

[nola mike]

Vortec or non? IIRC vortec doesn't have the exhaust crossover, right?

 

[AMMO DAWG]

It's a Vortex, looked through the parts manual and owners manual and there is little to no reference to the engine other than general safety stuff.

 

[Scott06]

It's a Vortex, looked through the parts manual and owners manual and there is little to no reference to the engine other than general safety stuff.

If you look at attached screen shot of my 04 200 sport parts manual it shows in each of the 5.0 engine combos on last line in engine shows rsr. The 4.3 options dont have that . Must be with extra weight on stern they wanted risers.

Is not your cause as u havent splashed yet. Do the pressure test and go from there. The vortec intake gaskets and torque spec can be hinky.

 

[dubs283]

Gonna guess either issue with the intake cooling passage integrity, issue with the intake gaskets, or both

Out of curiosity what spec are the intake bolts torqued to?

 

[AMMO DAWG]

I'm using Mercury Service Manual Number 25, intake is 11 lb-ft for GM V-6 (4.3L)

 

[stresspoint]

speculating where water is getting into the oil is a waste of time and money .

i recently went through this ordeal with 4.3 motors only to find cracked blocks.

pressure testing will for sure disclose where your leak is coming from seeing as so much is coming in.
i rigged up a privative tester with a few bits of scrap plate alloy and steel i had lying about (plasma cutter is handy for this),a old rubber car floor mat chopped up to seal holes off , a shredder valve chopped from a old motorcycle tube to pump air in., i didn't even use a gauge as when pumped the block up with air figured i could easily hear the air leaking out , problem was none did on block #2 (long story) . you will easily hear where air comes from using the same set up since water is coming in just running on the hose.

 

[Lou C]

I would air pressure test the cooling system see if it holds pressure over time & check the flatness of the sealing surfaces of the manifolds & elbows.

 

[dubs283]

I'm using Mercury Service Manual Number 25, intake is 11 lb-ft for GM V-6 (4.3L)

That is the correct torque spec for a 4.3 vortec engine

Seems like a cooling system pressure test is in order. With that much water in the oil and cylinders/combustion chamber by simply running on muffs the leak(s) should be quite obvious

 

[AMMO DAWG]

Ok, I plan to fab a plate to fit over each exhaust side of the heads to block the water passages, pull the thermostat housing and make plate with a air fitting and gauge and plug the hose from the water pump. 15-20PSI. Is hat a good plan, how long should it hold pressure is its good. I'll also run a straight edge over the manifolds and risers to see how flat the joints are.

 

[stresspoint]

i also found when tightening the intake manifold with the marine gaskets that just snugging them down tight to a guestamate was better result than a torque wrench to 11 foot pound which seemed to be a bit loose for my liking. .

edit to answer your last post. ,split the risers from the manifolds and blank off there.