water in engine, is it salvageable?

[ricodudink]

I am in the process of restoring a boat, in the process of which I hung the boat engine in the other day. Then got the engine running but soon heard the sound of the exhaust leaking. Then on further inspection, I noticed that water had entered the engine and especially in the rear cylinder.

Now I read a lot about cracked head or engine block but so I hope the water in the engine came through the cracked head gasket or through the exhaust. What do you guys think what is my chance to fix this?

After removing the spark plug and finding water in the rear cylinder, I also found quite a bit of water at the back of the exhaust.



and indeed the rear exhaust ports were also quite wet. In addition, I noticed a kink in the head gasket.


After removing the head, I indeed found a cracked gasket but not from the rear cylinder.



This is how the cylinder head looks like
View attachment WhatsApp Video 2023-06-11 at 20.45.54.mp4
Running engine before taking it appart.

What would you guys do in this situation?

 

[Scott Danforth]

from the look of the rusty exhaust ports, you have a leaking exhaust

have the head checked at your local machine shop

acetone test the exhaust (it may be cracked)

drain the oil as you have water in the oil.

 

[tpenfield]

It looks like a visible crack in the first picture. It is often easier to verify the cracks before disassembling the head & block.

You really need to pressure test both the head and block at this point as some of the cracks can be internal.

If/when water makes its way to the exhaust manifold it can find its way to the rear cylinder when the engine is at idle speeds or after it is turned off.

 

[dubs283]

Salvageable? Yes, maybe but not in its current condition

Engine needs to either be sent to a machine shop for proper inspection/repair (if possible) or a complete long block assy

You will need a new/sound intake/exhaust manifold (obvious crack) and possibly riser/elbow. Water has been in the manifold and engine for too long to save

 

[ricodudink]

Salvageable? Yes, maybe but not in its current condition

Engine needs to either be sent to a machine shop for proper inspection/repair (if possible) or a complete long block assy

You will need a new/sound intake/exhaust manifold (obvious crack) and possibly riser/elbow. Water has been in the manifold and engine for too long to save

I want to take the cylinder head to an engine restoration shop this afternoon to flatten and grind everything. Then I will immediately ask if they can do a pressure test on it. Personally, I don't really feel like taking the whole engine block out to do a pressure test. Is there any way to check the block for cracks without having to take everything out. Do you guys think I can get away with leaving that piece for what it is.

Besides that crack in the exhaust is that the dark brown line between the rust?

 

[ricodudink]

It looks like a visible crack in the first picture. It is often easier to verify the cracks before disassembling the head & block.

You really need to pressure test both the head and block at this point as some of the cracks can be internal.

If/when water makes its way to the exhaust manifold it can find its way to the rear cylinder when the engine is at idle speeds or after it is turned off.

I know it would have been better, but I did not have the tools to perform that test. Besides, the engine went to a mechanic once 2 years back and he only started talking about a possible crack in the exhaust.

 

[dubs283]

Personally, I don't really feel like taking the whole engine block out to do a pressure test. Is there any way to check the block for cracks without having to take everything out. Do you guys think I can get away with leaving that piece for what it is.

I thought this was a restoration?

You can't restore by putting band aids on problems. The rust on the piston tops/cylinder walls needs to be addressed. A proper machine shop will be able to set things right if the block is sound

 

[ricodudink]

I thought this was a restoration?

You can't restore by putting band aids on problems. The rust on the piston tops/cylinder walls needs to be addressed. A proper machine shop will be able to set things right if the block is sound

i fully understand your react and do agree. The thing is just that this project has been going on for over 2 years and has cost quite a lot of money by now. As I see it now, all the rust in the pistons is surface and most of it is even rust water which I wipe right off.

I was thinking myself to do just the head and then clean/flatten the top of the block properly and then assemble everything and cruise this summer.

Then after this season, another 2 or 3 months to take the whole block out and then have everything checked and if necessary have it rebuilt or else put in a rebuilt block.

I just wonder how likely it is that after assembling, my block will still have problems right after the first lap.

 

[Bondo]

I thought this was a restoration?

You can't restore by putting band aids on problems. The rust on the piston tops/cylinder walls needs to be addressed. A proper machine shop will be able to set things right if the block is sound

Ayuh,..... I see more junk, than usable parts,.....

 

[dubs283]

this project has been going on for over 2 years and has cost quite a lot of money by now..............Then after this season, another 2 or 3 months to take the whole block out and then have everything checked and if necessary have it rebuilt or else put in a rebuilt block.

Welcome to boating

You can do whatever you want with your engine but only repairing half of what is at least visibly wrong, crossing your fingers to use the boat this summer, then later doing the job proper will only cost you more money and time

Find a reputable machine shop locally, bring them everything and ask their opinion. It'll be close to most advice you get here.

And bringing a head to a machine shop this afternoon expecting a quick turnaround isn't pragmatic. Expect two week turnaround average for a reputable shop

 

[ricodudink]

Welcome to boating

You can do whatever you want with your engine but only repairing half of what is at least visibly wrong, crossing your fingers to use the boat this summer, then later doing the job proper will only cost you more money and time

Find a reputable machine shop locally, bring them everything and ask their opinion. It'll be close to most advice you get here.

And bringing a head to a machine shop this afternoon expecting a quick turnaround isn't pragmatic. Expect two week turnaround average for a reputable shop

Aah okay clear, I'll see what's the wisest thing to do. I will also call some local rebuilders to see if I can buy an overhaul engine with the trade-in of the old one.

 

[kenny nunez]

What year is your boat? Something to also consider whichever route you take, be sure to replace the thermostat and the water pump in the drive.

 

[ricodudink]

What year is your boat? Something to also consider whichever route you take, be sure to replace the thermostat and the water pump in the drive.

Its a boat from 1977 so its worth nothing.

 

[Lou C]

The problem you can have is the amount of time water was in the engine. Water in the engine oil damages bearings. So you could redo the head, put it together and wind up with an engine knock. My mechanic told me this when I was doing my top end overhaul a few years back, he said that you won't know if its good till you run it long enough to get the engine good and hot. I had blown HGs and water in the oil and 2 cyls. Well I rolled the dice and it turned out fine but the water was only in there for a few days, it was a lot of time to keep changing the oil and draining the block so water wouldn't creep back in.

 

[ricodudink]

The problem you can have is the amount of time water was in the engine. Water in the engine oil damages bearings. So you could redo the head, put it together and wind up with an engine knock. My mechanic told me this when I was doing my top end overhaul a few years back, he said that you won't know if its good till you run it long enough to get the engine good and hot. I had blown HGs and water in the oil and 2 cyls. Well I rolled the dice and it turned out fine but the water was only in there for a few days, it was a lot of time to keep changing the oil and draining the block so water wouldn't creep back in.

Aiii sweet, im in the same situation, the water is in my block for max 3 days. So im rolling the dice as well.

 

[nola mike]

Idk, tough to assess the block based on those pics. You need to clean out those cylinders at least to see how much rust is there. Head for sure needs addressed, and at least test exhaust components. If getting on the water >> worth more than your time, you can roll the dice. Maybe you can bring the boat on a trailer to the machine shop and have them take a look. More difficult to pressure test the engine with it apart like that. @tpenfield , are you looking at that spot on the head next to that plug on the right?

 

[ricodudink]

Just a little update:, Got the engine out of my boat and want to hang it in my engine stand soon. Have taken the cylinder head to a professional workshop and they are now overhauling the head. They pressed the head and it turned out to be air tight. They did have to put in new valves because they were too degraded. I also tested the exhaust on pressure (garden hose) at home and no leak came out. However, all gaskets in between were worn out so that could also have been the problem.

Next step is to see how bad the block is, and probably get that rebuilt as well. First, I'm going to have the lower block pressurised before having any work done on it given the chance of internal cracks.

Happy to thank @tpenfield @dubs283 @Lou C @nola mike for your good advice on getting the engine out of my boat anyway and doing everything right the first time. While removing it, I did come across quite a few other small problems that I will take care of right away. I hope to have a perfect boat again by the end of the summer.

 

[tpenfield]

I recall when I pulled the 454 BB from my Formula 242, my supply of wrenches and other tools was replenished from all the tools that I had dropped in the bilge and could not reach.

Having the engine out of the boat is a good time to give the bilge/engine bay a make-over.

 

[Scott Danforth]

with the engine out, replace the bilge pump

 

[ricodudink]

with the engine out, replace the bilge pump

already done right away, and immediately replaced the blower.