Water in drain plug but oil clean 3.7L Mercruiser 165HP 1987

[Brock.Ward]

So I bought this boat with the intentions of fixing it up. Its a 1987 Four Winns 19 Horizon with 3.7L 4 cylinder Mercruiser. Here is what it has and why i want to save it... Has the upgrade 4" heat pipe, has the alternator upgrade instead of the stator option, has all new trim motor and wiring and it looks clean. I bought this and checked the oil, looked like new actually... motor hadnt been ran for 4 years, so got it home, got it turning and un- seized, put new plugs in it, plugs looked normal wear and tearn no water or oil on them....starter is shot. So today i was getting ready to get a new starter and decided to change the oil while i ran to store. I pull the plug and probably a gallon or two of clear water runs out then the oil! Not happy. So my question is how? This has a closed cooling system, filled with clean new looking coolant, i checked all hoses and see coolant in each hose no water. Can someone help me with this? I havent done a compression test but had my buddy turn the crank while i held figers over plug holes and feels great....should i fill her with oil, get a new starter and try to see if it starts and see if there is a blown head gasket? Only thing i noticed is when he turns the cranks there is a whispering or relief sound of air but thats normal and then smells like gas so I am really hopign this could be frfom leaving cover off and rain over winter or something...any help is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Bt Doctur]

If it was clean water it most likely got in from the carb bolt for the flame arrestor. It wasn't mixed with the oil so it could also be condensation from sitting.
"this could be frfom leaving cover off and rain over winter or something...any help is appreciated. Thanks! "

More than likely .

 

[stonyloam]

The crankcase only holds 5 quarts of oil, so a gallon of water in there is A LOT OF WATER! Some water could have gotten through the intake, but it would take forever for that much to get in, and besides if water was seeping past the rings for 3 or 4 years everything would have been frozen solid with rust. If this boat sat outside (and I suspect that it has) I suspect that sometime the hull drain got plugged with debris and the boat filled with water that seeped past the pan gasket into the pan. It wouldn't take much of a leak over time. Fill her with oil, pull the plugs, squirt a little oil in each cylinder, and stick in a new starter and give it a go. If she spins freely. Do a quick compression test, won't be very accurate with a old/cold engine but if all of the cylinders show some compression that is a good sign. 0's are not good LOL! So far so good, slap in some new points and plugs, run a temporary fuel line from the fuel pump intake into a container of clean gas and give her a go. Make sure you have water supplied to the outdrive with a set of muffs, and make sure there is oil in the outdrive. If she starts and runs at all, try to get it warm and redo the compression check. Try not to run it over 1200 RPM. With it running, check for coolant leaking from the weep hole in the engine water pump. If that all works out you are in business. Good luck.

 

[stonyloam]

When you start reading all the "cracked block" threads here in the next couple of weeks, that old 470 will look better and better !

 

[Bt Doctur]

"but I followed his/the book/ the manuals directions, cant understand why is froze and cracked the block/manifolds. They said to it suck it in thru the muffs"

Just how many times will we see this post this year????????????????????????????

 

[Brock.Ward]

I actually thru new start in today, did oil change, compression was good, cleaned all plugs and wires, fired right up briefly then died...no fuel getting to carb. Gotta get new fuel filter or fuel pump, havent put muffs on it yet, i was getting cold tonight so I didnt want water running thru system, wanted to see if it would crank and at least start fora sec which it did

 

[Brock.Ward]

And this is a closed cooling system so I am not thinking its a cracked block and compression was good along with no visable cracks. Think I lucked out.

 

[Brock.Ward]

Next question thought, if fuel pump is located on side of engine what is the piece attached to the fuel tank with the two wires on it?

 

[stonyloam]

Don't worry to much about it getting cold. It is a full closed cooling system meaning both the block and manifolds are cooled by antifreeze. So look (or feel) at the underside of the heat exchanger. The aftmost plug is raw water, the forward is antifreeze. If the plug is in there (or you can find it and put it in) just hook up the muffs and run the water. When you are done, just pull the plug and let it drain and you are safe, nothing left to freeze. You don't want to run it very much without water, because the water cools the exhaust, and you can burn the shutters, and engine exhaust bellows. Sounds good so far!

 

[Bt Doctur]

that thing with the pink and black wires is your fuel gauge sender

 

[Brock.Ward]

ok, so the fuel pump is just drivin by suction? No wires attached to it so its not like a normal auto fuel pump? Do you recommend just cleaning the filter or replacing it first before replacing the fuel pump or is normal for them to go?

 

[stonyloam]

The fuel pump is driven by a lever that rides on a lobe on the cam, just like the mechanical fuel pump of older cars. There are two filters, one on the pump, that is made of a ceramic material that can be washed out, and there is a screen behind the big nut on the carb fuel line. My 87 still has the original pump. Now ordinarily I would say if you need a new pump, stick to the original mechanical one, but the new pumps don't seem to do well with 470's (read this http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...-outdrives/7449759-merc-470-fuel-pump-problem ) so if need a electric pump may be the way to go. You will need to install a oil pressure switch and fuel pump relay to go with the pump (for safety reasons).

 

[Brock.Ward]

Well I got the engine runnning good. The fuel line going to carb was completely clogged. Cleaned all that out and got the engine running great, after about 10 min though the exaust manifold or elbow where the antifreeze filler is started smoking and got really hot...any ideas? Antifreeze was full engine ran great, no antifreeze or water in oil but it started smoking and overheating only on that part of the boat, no where else...

 

[stonyloam]

Have you changed the impeller in the outdrive? You need to do that asap. Sounds like it was not getting enough water through the muffs. Check your garden hose pressure. Are you getting good water flow out through the outdrive? What did your temperature gauge read?

 

[Brock.Ward]

Hey Terry, thanks for all the help. I have a feeling its the thermostat or impeller...Probably the impeller...I am hoping I didnt damage anything else I shut it off while I could still at least touch the manifold without burning my hand right away but it was smoking. I had the muffs on tight, and water was about half way to 3/4 and it seemed like it ran a little longer when i tightened muffs and turned up pressure a little... Do you know where I can find a diagram of where the impeller is located. I am a manual but dont see anything about the impeller, is it normal like most boats, drop lower unit, replace entire impeller :/, hate doing those....I also read that you should clean the closed system, the coolant looks clean but I assume there is probably a bunch of crap sitting on the bottom of the heat exchanger...also is there a fairly easy way to test the impeller? should the water squirt out somewhere in a line on outdrive like a outboard? This alpha one is new to me i usually work on older omc's or outboards...

 

[Brock.Ward]

wow looks like the impeller is actually on the front housing, looks fairly easy huh, thats different...

 

[Bondo]

Do you know where I can find a diagram of where the impeller is located. I am a manual but dont see anything about the impeller, is it normal like most boats, drop lower unit, replace entire impeller :/, hate doing those...

Ayuh,.... You have an Alpha drive,.... The impeller is on the top of the lower unit of the outdrive,......

Just like the ones ya don't like doin',.....

'n runnin' on the muffs, there should be lots of excess water bleedin' out 'round the muffs,....
Over-feed it water,...

 

[stonyloam]

Nope, that is the engine waterpump. Bondo is right. Sorry, ya gotta do it. Now that you have the beast running, it is time to address the outdrive. You need to drain the oil, undo the hydraulic rams and remove the six bolts. Pull it out. I would replace the whole pump with a OEM unit. With the outdrive off, check the gimbal bearing and lube the U- joints. As for the heat exchanger, you can pull the front cap and take a look. Any significant debris will accumulate in the front starboard set of tubes. The flow test for the exchanger would be to remove the forward hose from the exchanger (water inlet) and put your garden hose there to see if you get a free flow of water out of the outdrive, should be little back pressure.

 

[Brock.Ward]

ugh ok lol, and yea a ton of water was squirting around the muffs, I believe the impeller was replaced before it sat for a few years...I may check the thermostat first today then make sure I am feeding it a ton of water like you suggested and see how it does...because when I tightened the muffs yesterday and turned up the pressure a little it ran a bit longer without heating up like it did the first time so it maybe that like you said it needs a lot of pressure to get things moving..

 

[Brock.Ward]

so the water impeller isnt in the middle of the outdrive like most lower units? Its all the way on top? So I have to remove the hydrolics?