Water in Bellows

[Robsad]

Greetings,
I have a 2007 Sea Ray purchased a year ago. This is my first boat, I am fairly mechanical but have little experience. My tendency is to tear apart everything and replace everything without a definitive cause. The boat has 24 hours on it since purchased. It has a quite growl when turned tight. I pulled the drive to inspect and had water in the bellows, at least half a gallon. I have inspected the u-j bellows thoroughly. It looks good. Drained the drive lube, it doesn’t look like any water there. The water O-ring was in place. Shift cable bellows looks pretty good, as does the exhaust. The only thing found that I am suspecting is the cause of the intrusion is the gasket is torn. See pic! Asking for opinions, pic is of right side below drive fluid pass through. Would this be in an experienced opinion, be enough to allow this much water? Large O ring looks good but would it stop intrusion from a leak in this area? Thank you for any input!

 

[JASinIL2006]

Seems like an awful lot of water for such a small tear in the gasket, especially if the boat isn't stored in water. I'd re-check the bellows and their attachment to the bell housing and gimbal housing.

Another option would be to replace the gasket and use the boat for a while and see if you get additional water in the bellows. From your description and pictures, it looks like the u-joints already will need to be replaced, so there would be little risk in just replacing the gasket to see what happens.

 

[Scott06]

In addition to what was mentioned above - if someone left the bilge plug in and it was stored outdoors you can fill the bellows from high water in the bilge.

I had some slight scuffing on my bellows on outside edge where it rubs against the gimbal ring and pivot pins. Was not quite through last year when I changed them and this was on a 2004. It was really hard to see the rub through

Get a factory manual ( i think number 14). if you are mechanically inclined you will be able to get through all needed repairs

Would check the u joints and gimbal bearing for the growling noise.

I think there is a cross reference to ujoints you can get at auto parts store

 

[JASinIL2006]

Seems like if bilge water entered the bellows, half of the motor would be submerged...

 

[Scott06]

Seems like if bilge water entered the bellows, half of the motor would be submerged...

would be about crankshaft level but have seen it.

 

[mr 88]

Replace the " U-J " bellows and be done with it . I'll put money down that that's the source of your water intrusion. Replace the U joint while your at it . Water has already started the pitting process and probably took out a few balls/ needles in the bearing assembly while submerged.

 

[Robsad]

would be about crankshaft level but have seen it.

Thanks all. Boat is stored in garage. Gimbal bearing is the growling noise, whoever replaced it last damaged it, pretty obvious so it’s getting replaced. U Joints feel solid, move freely but I realize they likely won’t last, but I was thinking they would let me know before failing completely. Is that not realistic or accurate? I was thinking the same on putting back together with a new gimbal bearing, that’s a risk to the new bearing of course. Running a day on the lake and pulling the drive off again, maybe that isn’t worth the risk. I do agree that it seams like a lot of water for where that little rip is. Thanks again for the thoughts!

 

[flashback]

Does your u-joint have grease fittings? If so pump them full and see if the grease pushes any water out of them..if it does then you'll know for sure.

 

[Scott06]

Thanks all. Boat is stored in garage. Gimbal bearing is the growling noise, whoever replaced it last damaged it, pretty obvious so it’s getting replaced. U Joints feel solid, move freely but I realize they likely won’t last, but I was thinking they would let me know before failing completely. Is that not realistic or accurate? I was thinking the same on putting back together with a new gimbal bearing, that’s a risk to the new bearing of course. Running a day on the lake and pulling the drive off again, maybe that isn’t worth the risk. I do agree that it seams like a lot of water for where that little rip is. Thanks again for the thoughts!

Spicer 5-3214X or equivalent (Moog 344) will fit the gen 2 with outside snap rings

I don't think that gasket was the leak- would also have to have a compromised big quad ring to get water in from the gasket. Would double check the bellows again

When you reassemble you glue the quad ring in there and let it set up before putting drive on.

 

[mr 88]

If you're replacing the gimbal bearing then it's a no brainer to do the U joints . Unless you like the thought of your new gimbal bearing taking a beating because the U joint is loose and can't wait to take it all apart again . Do it once and do it right , period... I also reiterate that the bellows needs to be replaced at the same time .

 

[Robsad]

Does your u-joint have grease fittings? If so pump them full and see if the grease pushes any water out of them..if it does then you'll know for sure.

No, sealed. Thanks.

 

[Robsad]

Spicer 5-3214X or equivalent (Moog 344) will fit the gen 2 with outside snap rings

I don't think that gasket was the leak- would also have to have a compromised big quad ring to get water in from the gasket. Would double check the bellows again

When you reassemble you glue the quad ring in there and let it set up before putting drive on.

Thank you for the cross parts and comments!

 

[Robsad]

If you're replacing the gimbal bearing then it's a no brainer to do the U joints . Unless you like the thought of your new gimbal bearing taking a beating because the U joint is loose and can't wait to take it all apart again . Do it once and do it right , period... I also reiterate that the bellows needs to be replaced at the same time .

Thank you sir! I do not disagree, guess I was hoping that little tear being the culprit but that was wishful thinking. I am not scared of replacing the U-Joints other than cost. The bellows looks to be a bigger job but it is what it is. Hopefully I can YouTube it. I just can find anything indicating the bellows but I think your right and can’t deny that it has to be the source, I can’t think of any other possibilities. I believe in OEM or equivalent so it’s a big payout. Would you agree on the cross referenced parts from an auto store or not?

 

[mr 88]

I get most of my parts from NAPA, which carries Sierra,the most common aftermarket name for Mercruiser parts.

 

[ScottinAZ]

Thank you sir! I do not disagree, guess I was hoping that little tear being the culprit but that was wishful thinking. I am not scared of replacing the U-Joints other than cost. The bellows looks to be a bigger job but it is what it is. Hopefully I can YouTube it. I just can find anything indicating the bellows but I think your right and can’t deny that it has to be the source, I can’t think of any other possibilities. I believe in OEM or equivalent so it’s a big payout. Would you agree on the cross referenced parts from an auto store or not?

with parts like U-Joints, the chances of Mercury or Sierra or Quicksilver manufacturing their own is NIL. They are contracted out to the likes of MOOG, Spicer etc who make the automotive versions as well. (the price you pay for the name is pure markup for the seller). Get the automotive equivalent on the u-joints, its literally the same part, at a considerable savings. For the bellows and other "marine only specialty" parts, then I go with the OEM if available, and if not, aftermarket. At the age of my boat, the list of NLA items from the OEM is growing.....

 

[nola mike]

would be about crankshaft level but have seen it.

I've had it happen, but my boat was pretty much submerged (and I think my shift cable is experiencing delayed effects )

 

[Robsad]

I get most of my parts from NAPA, which carries Sierra,the most common aftermarket name for Mercruiser parts.

Update, bellows is off, looks practically new. Not a single sign of damage. I will replace it anyway. It came off from the stern side rather easy, too easy. Gimbal housing in place, I just lifted the gimbal and removed the exhaust bellows. Clamp screw was on top instead of side, on UJ bellows, loosened easier than expected. Only took one hand and two fingers to get the right side off with less than expected effort. Left side to middle was more difficult but still got two hands on it and pulled it off. Maybe the right side was not sealed correctly. Maybe that was the cause of the intrusion. There are two holes down in the exhaust passage, pic of one, the other is behind the lower shift shaft bushing, are those supposed to be plugged? They don’t show in the parts diagrams.

 

[Scott06]

Possible that’s the source of water on bellows .

On the holes in bellhousing Exhaust side is open to water on prop end and full of water when stopped anyways

I think one of those holes holds the clip for the speedo water tube

 

[Robsad]

Possible that’s the source of water on bellows .

On the holes in bellhousing Exhaust side is open to water on prop end and full of water when stopped anyways

I think one of those holes holds the clip for the speedo water tube

Ok, so get this. Inspected everything while out. New Gimbal bearing, Bellows, shift shaft seals, new UJ’s, Spicer 5-3214X, installed per the book, Quicksilver gasket set. Carefully put drive back on, went together great, per the book. Torqued in cross pattern, checked gasket all around visually, looked great. Three hours later took a second look at the right side where previous gasket had split and the new gasket split in the exact same location. Exact same split. It’s a very thin surface area there next to the shift cable. There must be some deformity, high spot, I couldn’t feel or see on the drive side. The compression between the two surfaces must be splitting the gasket. I cut off the piece sticking out to get a look at the matching in the area. Very puzzling and now what. Pull it again?, run it, sell it, blow it up, very frustrating. Do you think I am safe to run?

 

[Scott06]

They tend to pop out there some folks have better luck with non oem gaskets. Based on what you show you wont have an issue , send it..