VP SX-M Trim Hose replacement without pulling drive?

ESGWheel

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Need advice from someone who has done it or…. VP TSK SM-M External Trim Hose replacement. Can it be done without pulling the drive and/or gimbal? Assume no issues with corrosion or stainless to aluminum.

One of the trim hoses has a slow drip, drip leak where it’s crimped (where the tubing enters the metal cap that attaches to the rubber hose), so it needs to be replaced. I have all 4 new hoses but all the marinas are slammed and cannot get to it in time to launch for the short season here in New England. I am a well-qualified auto mechanic and do most of my own work on the boat. But I am not ready to pull the stern drive and/or gimbal. I have or can get / make any special flare nut wrenches need.

I simply need to know from the community: has anyone done this and what are the tips and tricks? Or is it one of those: no way can be done?
Seems there is a lot of disagreement about this so asking again.
Thanks for the help!
 

ESGWheel

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Update: turns out the leak is actually coming from the fitting at the manifold block. It was running down the hose, transferred to the other one and gave the false impression the lower hose to fitting was leaking. This was supported by a bulge in the hose where it’s crimped to the fitting. A thorough cleaning and putting on some tell-tale ‘wicks’ confirmed the ‘where’. And here is the odd part: the fitting is tight at the manifold block as far as i can determine but the tubing is NOT centered in the nut. Its like the tube was bent over somehow and that is causing it to leak. I know I have never had anything lodged up there and while I assume possible its does not seem probable. See pics.

Regardless, it has to be fixed and I am still wondering if anyone has had success in replacing these hoses without pulling the drive / gimbal.

I did read another post that someone suggested that the Laser Difficult Access Socket would do the trick, so I have them on order, due in a couple of weeks (coming from the UK). But still unsure about the access so I am looking at cutting out a portion of the Gimbal faring. It’s not functional or structural so cutting of a piece of it off should not be anything but ugly. See pic for idea of where to cut.

Appreciate any suggestions..
 

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cptbill

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The real problem your going to have is getting the fittings of without the threads coming out with the fitting, In theory you should be able to change the hoses without pulling the drives but I have always pulled the drives because 9times out of 10 you need to at the very least chase the threads
 

ESGWheel

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The real problem your going to have is getting the fittings of without the threads coming out with the fitting, In theory you should be able to change the hoses without pulling the drives but I have always pulled the drives because 9times out of 10 you need to at the very least chase the threads
When you have done this did you pull just the drive or both the drive and the pivot? thx
 

Bondo

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Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,..... I don't do Volvo, so don't know the size, but,....
Have ya got a crows foot tubing wrench/ socket of the right size, a wobbly or 2, an extension, 'n rachet,..??
I've done alota hyd. lines with sucha combination many times, when access is tight,....
 

ESGWheel

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Bondo, thanks and appreciate the welcome.
Yes, I got all that: crows’ foot, wobbly extensions, etc. etc. None will work and while I am totally willing to grind down any of the tools, I frankly do not think that will do the trick either. Its needs to be a thin walled ‘crows foot’ that will fit into the needed space and still get some torque on it. This is why I am hopeful that the Laser sockets will work, see picture.

And with the thousands of VP drives out there, a lot of them the SX type, I figured that there is someone out there that has tried all the tricks and found one that works or can say with some confidence: “No way”.

I totally get that corrosion may be an issue which could be a game changer, especially if have to replace the manifold > then the everything comes apart! No way around that. But assuming was brand new, can it be done and with what tools and tricks?

I am hoping someone out there can speak to that.
 

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dypcdiver

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I have done this job on my salt water boat, removing the drive is only a half hour job. and will make life much easier and should be done every year anyway.
I removed the gimbal ring too as all the fittings on the hoses were corroded into the little manifold. I have a very good set of brake pipe spanners but I could not shift any of the fittings. Eventually had to disconnect the 2 lines from the pump and removed the whole manifold after removing the one nut on the outboard side.
A new manifold was the only solution.
BTW the manifold has to be removed to the outboard side to get a spanner to release the 2 lines.
 

Scott Danforth

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Drive should be coming off every year for routine maintenance
 

ESGWheel

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Drive should be coming off every year for routine maintenance
I have had the boat for about 10 years and the drive has been off 4 times by my marina for routine and other maintenance. However just pulling the drive does not gain additional access, it’s the pivot assembly that ideally needs to come off and it has never been off that I know of. I am sure it will be an endeavor to do it. While I plan on rebuilding it all in a couple of years, I am not prepared to do that now and hopeful these special sockets will do the trick.
 

ESGWheel

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Quick update:
While waiting a little more than a week (which is still pretty amazing when you think about it) the Difficult Access Socket Ser arrived from the UK. Despite the rain I plugged in the 11mm socket into a long wobble extension to see if it would fit.
IT DOES!
The thin wall coupled with the ‘cutout’ allowed this to slip over the steel tubing and get onto the nut. Since I did not have it set up to try and loosen it, I did not yet try. But I think I got it fairly square on the nut which is half the battle. And the wobble extension angle is not bad. And the other end is well clear of the drive to put on a rachet. See pics.

So now I am holding my beath waiting for the good weather and having the time to prepare. If not this week, then by this weekend’s end I’ll know. Keeping my fingers crossed!
 

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ESGWheel

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Success!
Got home late but still had an hour of daylight and the weather was warm and sunny. Do I dare to try to get the trim hose broke loose? I do. Was careful to make sure the motor supported and a catch pan for the oil in place. Gathered up the tools and proceed to work the unique Laser socket onto the nut. Got the socket fully seated. Attached the rachet drive, held my breath, and applied ever increasing lefty loosely torque.

Then….CRACK! It broke loose!

Was able to turn it about one flat before the cutout in the socket would interfere with the tubing. But that was enough!

Removed socket > a little difficult due to a slightly chewed up nut from the previous installation. Appears that the hoses had been replaced at some point > a double-edged sword development. Was able to use the Laser socket to get one flat of a turn at a time. Turn 60 degrees, remove socket, put back on, turn, repeat. Then was able to reach up with a 7/16 open end clamped to Vice Grips and turn it. 7/16 due to it being slightly larger then 11mm and was easier to slip it on.

Got the bottom connection and the clamp off no issues. And out comes the hose.

Inspecting the manifold block threads, it does seem a little chewed up, that other edge of the sword, probably from when the hoses were replaced before. Why else would the nut be chewed up? Zero pick up on the threads of the hose just removed and nut came out smooth. So, manifold 'damage' had to be from before. Regardless I will use a bottom tap and see if I can get in there and do some clean up. No obvious issues with hose either despite it looking off kilter when installed. Maybe something did get jammed in there and when raised the drive it pushed over the metal tubing near the nut. The new hose will tell us: will be the same 'off kilter' or seal up nice and tight.

Next step: installation!

Pics are: removed hose; manifold block; total collection of tools used to remove hose and of the drive post hose removal (bag in drip pan is a brick in a plastic bag to keep pan from blowing away).
 

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cptbill

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Congratulations, might have to get me some of those and try it that way
 

ESGWheel

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Update:
Still not done but have a high degree of confidence will successfully conclude in the coming days. Both work and the rainy weather have delayed me significantly but it’s been helpful.

Using the removed hose, I cut off an end so I had just the nut. With this I have been able to (1) determine that the threads in the manifold are mostly good. Appears that the treads deepest in the hole are gummed up > I could get the nut started but it would tighten up before it was fully in; (2) I found that I can get to the manifold ‘nice and square’ using my socket swivel, not the u-joint type but the ball and socket style. This is critical to be able to run a tap into it.

So, I have been trying to get a bottom tap in there but due to being overly cautious I have not been successful. A bottom tap does not have much of a lead and thus unless you get it started exactly in the existing threads you are going to destroy the hole. Thus, I stopped trying.

Time also helped because as I was cleaning up the basement, I found the endoscope I forgot I had. With that I was able to determine that the manifold threads were as I suspected and that the O-Ring seat is in good shape > see pics.

And time again helped due to ZLJUANN’s efforts I now know using a thread repair kit will work. See his post here: link. I have one on order as insurance. To use this on the manifold however requires cutting away some of the fairing of the pivot assembly since I cannot think of how to drill, tap and insert a coil without straight on access. But as a last resort, it should work. Confidence gaining that I will not lose this year’s boating season due to a hose!

And time has helped me reflect and think about my approach. I know I need to get that bottom tap in there, or do I? Some more research and I am now getting a ‘thread chaser’ which is meant to clean up, not cut, threads. And for the ones I bought they appear to be nice and squared off at the end, just like a bottom tap. See pic. Hopefully this will be just like screwing in the nut (which I know I can do) and all will be good to put it back together. Should know by end of next weekend if the weather improves!
 

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Lou C

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I would use a thread chaser rather than a tap; I think it’s safer. Also don’t fear pulling the drive & pivot housing; a very important job on these is replacing the drive shaft bellows & both need to come off to do that. I did the bellows on my Cobra which is very similar to the SX & it just takes time it’s not hard really. Deferred maintenance on an I/O tends to get you in trouble; sooner or later the piper will need to get paid lol. When was the last time the bellows was done? The OEM bellows on the Cobra & SX (used to be the same part) are good for about 10 years before cracks start to show up in the folds IF it was stored down. If stored up they may start to crack sooner.
 

ESGWheel

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I would use a thread chaser rather than a tap; I think it’s safer.
Agree on this and with the 'extra time' i had i came to the same conclusion. I found I was caught up in doing it the way I always do it: with a tap, or in this case a bottom tap which did cause me to slow down. And I am glad I did. And in all the posts I have read about these trim hoses, you are the first to recommend a chaser, so hopefully this will help others as well.

Also don’t fear pulling the drive & pivot housing; a very important job on these is replacing the drive shaft bellows & both need to come off to do that.
Since I have owned the boat (abt 10 years) the bellows has been replaced twice, once early on and another time just the other year as a preventive maintenance. Drive has been coming off about every other year by my marina. I plan on doing that sort of work myself in the future but just now I am not set up for it. Pivot assembly never been off and I strongly suspect it will be corroded, etc. so my plan is to get a used pivot assembly and rebuilt it and then pull the drive & pivot myself and rebuild the drive over the winter.
 

ESGWheel

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Update 2
Success!
After coming home from work last couple of days, it was raining off and on so out I went and continued to work it. I was able to get the thread chaser to screw in and tried to use it to clean up those ‘bad threads’ at the bottom of the hole I highlighted before. I was getting more resistance than I would have expected so again I took the cautious approach and stopped. Looking in the trim cylinder hole it’s obvious the threads go all the way to the bottom. Is it possible the manifold threads do not? I took a closer look at the endoscope pictures and started to suspect what I thought were bad threads at the bottom of the hole were instead simply no threads by design. Huh? I started searching the web for pictures of this manifold block (Part No. 3852559) and sure enough found very clear evidence that is not threaded to the bottom! See picture and mockup. In the picture the squiggly red and blue lines are shown as the red and blue ‘seats’ in the mockup. Also, in looking at the hose with the O-Ring installed the O-Ring does not seat against the flare of the tubing; it is sized to perfectly fit on the smallest diameter of the tubing, see picture. While it’s possible to force the O-Ring onto the slightly larger diameter where it would rest against the flare it’s my experience that is not how O-Rings work > their diameter is not meant to be stretched. The VP Workshop manual for Sterndrive and Transom Shield make no mention of trim hose installation other than to say, “Coat new O-Rings with hydraulic fluid and place them on the lines. Tighten to 84-108 in lb.” Regardless I followed my gut and did not push up the O-Ring to the larger diameter. I figured that if it needs to stretch out and go there, it will do so when the nut is tightened down.

So, I remain a little confused at exactly how these fittings work. And the pressure is significant > more than 1000 PSI at times.

But I digress. Here is the rest of the story.

Post ‘threads do not go to bottom’ understanding I started measuring the best I could to ensure the actual treads were fully cleaned up (the chaser was same length of the nut, so used that as a gauge). Using plenty of WD-40 with the multiple thread chasings followed by air blasts the smoking gun finally presented itself: a thin curled hair of metal. Anyone who has stripped threads knows this tell-tale. Here is my hypothesis: when the hoses were replaced there was a slight stripping of the thread, just the crown of the thread, not the root. And this sliver of metal interfered with the hose nut precluding it from fully seating but just a teasy bit. No leaks until after some time the ‘not fully inserted’ nut allowed a whisper of a leak to occur. (I did try to tighten it as the first step but it still leaked and post getting it out the O-Ring was in good shape.)

Convinced I now had reasonable treads – or maybe I was just cold – I inserted the hose using a couple of screwdrivers as fingers. One to push the nut up to the manifold and the other, with a rubber tip (see picture), to turn the nut. The trick was to have the nut nice and square on the manifold and held there. I used some spring clamps for this (like a close pin). But initially I did it the easy way: the hose was on the incorrect side of the gimble bearing grease tube. This was done as practice to see if the nut would turn into its threads using the screwdriver. Said differently, I needed to see if the nut would catch nice and easy and it did. Good. And it was an easier set up on the wrong side of the grease tube. Resetting it on the correct side, it was much more difficult to get it square but finally did. A few ‘pushes’ with the screwdriver and it took hold. I initially snugged it down to seat it but then backed it off so the tube could swing. Put the hose behind the hose clamp and loosely tightened its bolt. And then got the other end into the trim cylinder. After making sure all looked good with no twists in the hose, torqued down the hose and clamp nuts.

Removed the drive support devices, held my breath, and cycled it up and down to get rid of the air, filing the reservoir as needed. After a 6 or so cycles, did my inspection and no leaks!

I know this is a long write up so I will post a summary of the key elements to get this done. And if I can get some information on these fittings, I’ll share that as well.

For now, I need to finish getting the boat ready for the season and I am ecstatic I am going to have one!
 

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Lou C

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Nov 10, 2002
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thanks for posting this, that is a tricky job for sure.
when I needed new trim hoses on my Cobra I had my mechanic do it but that was way back in 2005 or 2006. Still good now lucky.
 
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