VP GXI 5.0 Running Bad, Plugs Fouled on Port Side Only

Chuck715

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What could cause a fuel injected engine to hard start, idle rough, struggle to get up on plane? Mechanic said ECU showed temp sensor codes and replaced all 3 sensors. Same issue. Plugs showed all 4 port side plugs blackish and wet, all starboard plugs light brown and dry. Replaced all plugs and after less than 1 hours of run time, new plugs were fouled in exactly the same way.
 

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alldodge

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What's your motor serial number?

Your motor was overheated a few times (pdf file). Plugs look a bit steam cleaned as in blew a head gasket or intake manifold leak. Do a compression test
 

Chuck715

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What's your motor serial number?

Your motor was overheated a few times (pdf file). Plugs look a bit steam cleaned as in blew a head gasket or intake manifold leak. Do a compression test
Serial number is 4202226846. We will check the compression and see if that reveals anything. Thanks.
 

Toddavid

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Possible your fuel cooler float seat is leaking.

The float is there to allow fuel vapor to escape to the port side of the intake manifold to be burned.

When the seat seal goes bad from ethanol degradation, raw fuel is allowed to pass to the intake manifold, too. Symptoms include all the ones you list.

Watch this video to test. He also does rebuilds for a fraction of the cost of a new pump assembly:

 

Chuck715

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Possible your fuel cooler float seat is leaking.

The float is there to allow fuel vapor to escape to the port side of the intake manifold to be burned.

When the seat seal goes bad from ethanol degradation, raw fuel is allowed to pass to the intake manifold, too. Symptoms include all the ones you list.

Watch this video to test. He also does rebuilds for a fraction of the cost of a new pump assembly:

Thanks Todd. Don't know if you read my long BoatStory attached to the original post but we had put a brand new fuel pump in as part of trying to figure out this problem. So, I think our float is OK at this point.
 

Toddavid

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Thanks Todd. Don't know if you read my long BoatStory attached to the original post but we had put a brand new fuel pump in as part of trying to figure out this problem. So, I think our float is OK at this point.
oops, nope, didn't see that attachment.

I assume you replaced the whole assembly, not just the pump motors?

I don't think you have O2 sensors on a 2008, but that can cause bank to bank mixture issues when one goes bad.
 

Chuck715

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oops, nope, didn't see that attachment.

I assume you replaced the whole assembly, not just the pump motors?

I don't think you have O2 sensors on a 2008, but that can cause bank to bank mixture issues when one goes bad.
Yes, replaced whole assembly. Yes, no O2 sensors.
 

Toddavid

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Check the main grounds, too. The problem being contained to one bank, plus the persistent temp sensor codes may suggest a ground issue confusing the ECU. I think your main ground location is port side back of cylinder head.
 

Chuck715

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OK, thanks
After compression test we will know where to go. Make sure throttle is WOT when doing test
OK, did compression tests but discovered other issues which are probably involved. Plus, the tool we ordered for the compression test said it also did leak down, but when we started those tests, we realized that our tool only had one gauge and could not do proper leak down. Please see all the gory details in my attachment.
 

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alldodge

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We got our compression test tool, but before we tested we wanted to make sure there was no water
involved with our issues, so with all the spark plugs out and the garden hose connected directly to the
impeller output to the engine, we cranked the engine over. To our shock, water was spitting out of the
leading starboard side cylinder. We unbolted the exhaust riser and saw that the gasket was
compromised and leaking. We will fix that issue. We then disconnected the water and cranked the
engine to clear the water from the cylinders and proceeded with the dry compression testing. We got a
wide range of values on our cylinders from a high of 167 to a low of 100 on the first 7 cylinders. The last
cylinder got zero. We ran it several times and always got zero. It was the starboard back most cylinder.
We sprayed in some oil into the cylinder and cracked it a couple times and then tested again and
consistently got 97 psi. We then wanted to proceed to leak down testing but realized, watching uTube
videos, that our single gauge compression tester could not do a proper leak down test. So we ordered a
leak down tool.
Our plan is to fix our intake water leak, then make sure no more water is leaking into our cylinders. If
our head gasket is compromised or the head is cracked, then we still might have water issues, which
might be our entire issue, but if we get a good water test, then we will proceed to run a wet
compression test of all cylinders and then a proper leak down test to see what that shows. All we can
do is follow there the trail leads. If we still have water, then the head gasket is probably compromised.
If no water, compression and leak down tests should reveal any issues with valves or possible blown
piston or rings. We will most likely have to pull the heads and see what we see. If we pull the heads, we
will most likely replace them. We just have to take it step by step.

Don't understand the pdf thing but for others, here is what is says

The 167 to 100 is enough to pull the head, the zero is a must do
Seeing zero and with oil getting 97 just means the rings are shot. May have other problems as your thinking but not going to get past having ring issues. Valves as you know is easy to do
 

Chuck715

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My replies can often get very long to explain everything and may exceed the maximum size for a reply, so rather than try to put the reply into the thread, I just create a document file and attach it.

Also, I sincerely hope its not my rings. You are probably right but that will be the kiss of death for the motor. Now we'd be looking at a reconditioned motor. We need to redo our compression tests and see what we get. Thanks for your input on this.
 

Chuck715

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Don't understand the pdf thing but for others, here is what is says

The 167 to 100 is enough to pull the head, the zero is a must do
Seeing zero and with oil getting 97 just means the rings are shot. May have other problems as your thinking but not going to get past having ring issues. Valves as you know is easy to do
We replaced the starboard riser gasket, torqued to proper specs. We then ran a water test with the hose, pressurizing both the exhaust cooling and engine coolant systems, all spark plugs removed and ran water for 5 minutes without cracking engine. No evidence of water from spark plug holes. Cranked engine many times, several times and saw no evidence of water coming from spark plug holes. Shut down water and proceeded with “wet” testing our cold cylinders. We several squirts of oil in each cylinder and then cranked the engine to blow out any excess. Then we tested each. Then we put in new spark plugs and connected fuel pump and everything to run the engine. Engine cranked a couple times and then started right up, sounding very good. Let it run for 15-20 minutes, temp came up to normal and stayed. Revved the engine several times and it sounded really good. No exhaust smoke. Shut down and waited for 10 minutes for it to cool enough to remove spark plugs. Then performed the compression test for each cylinder in a “hot” state. Got really decent compression out of all except one cylinder, that had previously tested good in a cold and wet states. Then we meticulously ran the leak down test on each cylinder and there too, got pretty good results. All cylinders in the green. Strange given that one cylinder consistently tested zero on a cold cylinder. Got better when wet and even better when hot. And another cylinder started out looking good but got worse when hot but still had good leak down results. All our compression results are in the attached PDF.



Anyway, at that point we put the plugs back in and ran it for another short while with the hose pumping water. We started and stopped a few times and it really seemed “back to normal”, but it has sounded normal to us before when sitting in the driveway but had loss of power when under load, so we figured, even through our compression results were kind of all over the place, we still had compression in all cylinders and the engine seemed to run and sound great. We thought putting it back in the water would be the next best test we could run. I think we feel that if we blew a head gasket such that water was still getting into the cylinders, we would have seen that water during our water test or after we ran it and did our hot compression tests. We also felt that if we blew a head gasket or was cracked such that we had sever loss of compression, we would have seen that in the compression test. We are sure our valves and/or rings may have some corrosion or other wear but we never found a completely dead cylinder. If we still have no power or experience hard starts or anything, it will most likely lead us back to removing the heads examining the cylinder walls and pistons etc.
 

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Chuck715

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We replaced the starboard riser gasket, torqued to proper specs. We then ran a water test with the hose, pressurizing both the exhaust cooling and engine coolant systems, all spark plugs removed and ran water for 5 minutes without cracking engine. No evidence of water from spark plug holes. Cranked engine many times, several times and saw no evidence of water coming from spark plug holes. Shut down water and proceeded with “wet” testing our cold cylinders. We several squirts of oil in each cylinder and then cranked the engine to blow out any excess. Then we tested each. Then we put in new spark plugs and connected fuel pump and everything to run the engine. Engine cranked a couple times and then started right up, sounding very good. Let it run for 15-20 minutes, temp came up to normal and stayed. Revved the engine several times and it sounded really good. No exhaust smoke. Shut down and waited for 10 minutes for it to cool enough to remove spark plugs. Then performed the compression test for each cylinder in a “hot” state. Got really decent compression out of all except one cylinder, that had previously tested good in a cold and wet states. Then we meticulously ran the leak down test on each cylinder and there too, got pretty good results. All cylinders in the green. Strange given that one cylinder consistently tested zero on a cold cylinder. Got better when wet and even better when hot. And another cylinder started out looking good but got worse when hot but still had good leak down results. All our compression results are in the attached PDF.



Anyway, at that point we put the plugs back in and ran it for another short while with the hose pumping water. We started and stopped a few times and it really seemed “back to normal”, but it has sounded normal to us before when sitting in the driveway but had loss of power when under load, so we figured, even through our compression results were kind of all over the place, we still had compression in all cylinders and the engine seemed to run and sound great. We thought putting it back in the water would be the next best test we could run. I think we feel that if we blew a head gasket such that water was still getting into the cylinders, we would have seen that water during our water test or after we ran it and did our hot compression tests. We also felt that if we blew a head gasket or was cracked such that we had sever loss of compression, we would have seen that in the compression test. We are sure our valves and/or rings may have some corrosion or other wear but we never found a completely dead cylinder. If we still have no power or experience hard starts or anything, it will most likely lead us back to removing the heads examining the cylinder walls and pistons etc.
Just to close out this thread, we put the boat back in the water and took a test ride. Started fine, idled fine and felt a little sluggish getting up on plane, but did get there. Ran hard for about 10 minutes and then we shut down the engine. We waited about 15 minutes and it started back up with no issues. My son then took it out the next day for a long run and it started fine, idled fine and he said the longer he ran it hard, up on plane, then better it seemed to run. He felt like maybe the ECU was adjusting to new conditions or something. Anyway, consensus was that the boat ran great, power was back, idled fine, started and stopped fine, gas mileage after boating almost all day, was back to what it was prior to this whole mess starting. Yes, we probably have less than perfect compression in a couple cylinders, but otherwise, it had to have been our water leak in the starboard riser that precipitated all our poor running issues. We had used an aftermarket gasket when we replaced the risers and manifold a couple seasons ago and it was had laminated layers of metal and some other material, whereas the genuine VP gaskets were a single metal plate. We think maybe our initial overheating event melted or otherwise delaminated the aftermarket gasket and started a water leak, which caused all our other issues. So probably the side with the water leak was getting its spark plugs steam cleaned, as Alldodge had said, and the port side pistons just looked gunked up because the engine just wasn't firing correctly. Anyway, we are happy with the end result and hope we can squeeze another season or two before having to do major engine work.
 
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