Volvo Penta 3.0 4 cylinder engine won't start

Dash48

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Okay so I got a 1977 Monterey with a Volvo Penta 3.0 SX and when I got the boat from the seller I put a new starter on it wired up the alternator checked all the fuses put your muffs on the drive Stern and got the boat to run. Several days before I took it to the lake it was start up and run no issue. Took it to the leg put it in the water boat cranked over and started in fast idle for about 1 minute brought it to an idle and it's stalled would crank over but would not start tried several attempts with starter fluid it was getting gas in the car still would not start until the battery went dead after numerous tries. Brought it home check the voltage from the battery was good after charging it check the voltage to the starter good check the voltage to the coil was getting electricity to the distributor cap but was not getting any electricity to the plugs took off the distributor cap cleaned all the terminals inside pulled off the rotor cleaned that all the terminals put it back on the answer would crank over and tried to start but wouldn't stay running it was getting gas it seems like sporadic electrical power going to the plugs but not consistent could it be my distributor that's going bad or the coil? Any feedback would be most definitely welcome new to The forum but I have 50 years of mechanical background
 

Bondo

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Okay so I got a 1977 Monterey with a Volvo Penta 3.0 SX and when I got the boat from the seller I put a new starter on it wired up the alternator checked all the fuses put your muffs on the drive Stern and got the boat to run. Several days before I took it to the lake it was start up and run no issue. Took it to the leg put it in the water boat cranked over and started in fast idle for about 1 minute brought it to an idle and it's stalled would crank over but would not start tried several attempts with starter fluid it was getting gas in the car still would not start until the battery went dead after numerous tries. Brought it home check the voltage from the battery was good after charging it check the voltage to the starter good check the voltage to the coil was getting electricity to the distributor cap but was not getting any electricity to the plugs took off the distributor cap cleaned all the terminals inside pulled off the rotor cleaned that all the terminals put it back on the answer would crank over and tried to start but wouldn't stay running it was getting gas it seems like sporadic electrical power going to the plugs but not consistent could it be my distributor that's going bad or the coil? Any feedback would be most definitely welcome new to The forum but I have 50 years of mechanical background
Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,....... Did you service the points,..??
 

ESGWheel

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If you can get it running post cleaning up the points, recommend doing a compression test (even if you cannot get it running). That way you are not wasting additional time and money if the engine needs a rebuild. If compression good, then do all the maintenance on it that includes replacing the points, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, oil & filter change, impeller, etc. And I would include a carb rebuild. After that if it is running nice, attack the sterndrive for its maintenance activities.
 

Dash48

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Yes when I first got the boat that was one of the first things I did after I put a starter on it a compression check all cylinders were between 140 150 psi replaced wires plugs oil filter impeller I did not clean the carb but that is my next go to it's possible water got in the carburetor I put a tarp over the engine instead of the hood and we had some rain it could have seeped into the car I replaced the plugs and spun the engine over with the plugs out had it running before I went to the gas station and put a full tank of gas in it and then headed to the lake so it's possible the gas have water in it or the carb got water from the rain I'm going to do a quick connect to a portable gas can and fresh gas in the carb to see if that makes a difference I might have to go ahead and siphon the gas out of the tank and start over I have rebuilt carbs before no issues there
 

Dash48

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If you can get it running post cleaning up the points, recommend doing a compression test (even if you cannot get it running). That way you are not wasting additional time and money if the engine needs a rebuild. If compression good, then do all the maintenance on it that includes replacing the points, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, oil & filter change, impeller, etc. And I would include a carb rebuild. After that if it is running nice, attack the sterndrive for its maintenance activities.
Points I don't see any points it's electronic distributor under the rotor is copper wire where would points be
 

ESGWheel

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Sounds like you have a sloid engine and a good plan moving forward. I would still add in changing out the cap as rotor as well. I am not familiar with this distributor but others may be. Post your engine serial no. and how it goes with the portable gas can.
 

Dash48

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Already replaced the distributor cap and rotor unfortunately there is no serial numbers that I can find on the valve cover or the block I've looked just about everywhere that I could crawl into at 68 years old LOL I'm going to pull the carburetor tomorrow and it's a mechanical fuel pump so I'll disconnect the fuel line from the tank and hook up another portable gas tank pump out the fuel that's in the line after cleaning the carb I'll put it back on with fresh gas see if that makes the difference
 

Dash48

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Update so I took the carburetor off cleaned all the Jets checked all the seals everything looked good dump the old gas out put the carburetor back on disconnected the fuel pump hose to the tank disconnected the line that goes to the carb so I could flush out the fuel line put a smaller reserved gas can near the engine with the fuel pump inlet hose inside the fuel can reconnected the line to the carburetor, but before I did that I took my timing light and checked every plug wire was getting electricity to each one I crank the motor over and the same thing kept happening would try to start but would not engage a few times I let the starter run for a while at least 10 seconds with the engine turning over it would not continue running this thing was running just last week on earmuffs and I'm trying to figure out what happened is there a fuse is there maybe the coil could be bad or the distributor itself I already put on a new cap and new rotor and I've got 12 volts to 13 volts going to the distributor I'm lost anybody got any ideas suggestions got good compression on every cylinder
 

Dash48

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Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,....... Did you service the points,..??
I have been asked that twice Bondo can you please elaborate on points are they inside the distributor like the old school distributors or we took a match cover to measure the distance between the points contact other than that I don't know where the points would be
 

Bondo

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I have been asked that twice Bondo can you please elaborate on points are they inside the distributor like the old school distributors or we took a match cover to measure the distance between the points contact other than that I don't know where the points would be
Ayuh,....... When you take the distributor cap off,.... There'll either be a set of points starring back at you,....
Or, an electronic trigger of some sort that tells the coil to fire,....
'n Yes, I've set 'em with a matchbook to get it running enough to get to the shop, where they can be properly serviced,...
Trouble is,.. matchbooks are pretty tough to find now a days,....
 

ESGWheel

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Here is a picture of a points distributor. And here is a link for u-tube video showing both (link).
Points Dist.png
 

ESGWheel

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PS: while not relevant to the issue, I used to "borrow" my girlfriend’s paper nail file and use it to not only clean up the points but to set them as well 😊
 

Dash48

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Ayuh,....... When you take the distributor cap off,.... There'll either be a set of points starring back at you,....
Or, an electronic trigger of some sort that tells the coil to fire,....
'n Yes, I've set 'em with a matchbook to get it running enough to get to the shop, where they can be properly serviced,...
Trouble is,.. matchbooks are pretty tough to find now a days,....
Yeah it's an electronic distributor there's no points in it what are your newer versions I have no idea why this engine stopped all of a sudden I've been looking for a kill switch somewhere near the shifter throttle on the boat but I cannot figure out why this thing all of a sudden won't start I'll check out some YouTube
 

ESGWheel

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Dash,
I empathize with you on trying to crawl around in the engine compartment as we get older. Here is a recap my understanding of the issues.

New to you older boat. It did run post some initial work. Now it will turn over and not start but will sputter like its trying to run.
The following had been done:
  • Replaced Starter, Alternator, Cap, Rotor (not points as it’s an electronic module), wires, plugs, oil & filter, impeller. Cleaned out the carb and used fresh gas out of a can (eliminating possibility of bad gas in the tank).
  • Testing has been: 12VDC at coil; spark at plugs based on using a timing light on each plug wire; Compression test good at 140-150#.
  • Between was running and now not, it rained and only had a tarp covering engine, possibly got wet.
Let’s go back to basics. As you know three things are needed to run: Fuel, Spark and Compression. Compression is not in doubt per your test. But I suspect the other two may be an issue despite the checks done.

Here are my troubleshooting suggestions to be followed in the order presented.
  • Disconnect the fuel from the carb and with that disconnected end placed in a bottle, crank over the engine and ensure getting good flow. If good flow, next step.
  • With fuel line reconnected, the spark arrestor removed (so you can look down the carb) and the coil high tension wire grounded out (the wire that goes to the distributor so you do not get spark) have a friend crank the engine while you are looking down the carb with a flashlight. You should not see any gas flowing into the carb. If no gas flowing, next step.
  • With the above set up still in place, and you looking down the carb with the flashlight, have your friend advance the throttle from idle to wide open. No cranking, only moving throttle. You should see a squirt of gas from the accelerator pump. If it squirts, next step.
The above is to validate fuel.
  • Take the coil high tension wire and hold the end a few millimeters away from a good ground, like the engine block. Now have that friend try to start (crank) the engine. You should see sparks rapidly and strong. If good strong sparks, next step.
  • Replace the coil wire and remove all the spark plug wires (do not want it to start). Using a spare plug or screwdriver, create the situation so you can observe a spark from that wire. Now have that friend try to start (crank) the engine. You should see sparks in time with the compression stroke (so not as many as before) but still strong. If good strong sparks, next step.
  • Pull all the plugs out. Inspect them for fouling or extreme wetness. Validate the gap is correct. If all good, reinstall and next step.
  • Reinstall the plug wires being carful the proper firing order is being followed > in other words the correct wire on the correct plug. If any doubt about this, do internet search.
The above is to validate spark.
Once all reassembled, try to start.
Post results of above testing and questions. Good luck!
 

Dash48

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Dash,
I empathize with you on trying to crawl around in the engine compartment as we get older. Here is a recap my understanding of the issues.

New to you older boat. It did run post some initial work. Now it will turn over and not start but will sputter like its trying to run.
The following had been done:
  • Replaced Starter, Alternator, Cap, Rotor (not points as it’s an electronic module), wires, plugs, oil & filter, impeller. Cleaned out the carb and used fresh gas out of a can (eliminating possibility of bad gas in the tank).
  • Testing has been: 12VDC at coil; spark at plugs based on using a timing light on each plug wire; Compression test good at 140-150#.
  • Between was running and now not, it rained and only had a tarp covering engine, possibly got wet.
Let’s go back to basics. As you know three things are needed to run: Fuel, Spark and Compression. Compression is not in doubt per your test. But I suspect the other two may be an issue despite the checks done.

Here are my troubleshooting suggestions to be followed in the order presented.
  • Disconnect the fuel from the carb and with that disconnected end placed in a bottle, crank over the engine and ensure getting good flow. If good flow, next step.
  • With fuel line reconnected, the spark arrestor removed (so you can look down the carb) and the coil high tension wire grounded out (the wire that goes to the distributor so you do not get spark) have a friend crank the engine while you are looking down the carb with a flashlight. You should not see any gas flowing into the carb. If no gas flowing, next step.
  • With the above set up still in place, and you looking down the carb with the flashlight, have your friend advance the throttle from idle to wide open. No cranking, only moving throttle. You should see a squirt of gas from the accelerator pump. If it squirts, next step.
The above is to validate fuel.
  • Take the coil high tension wire and hold the end a few millimeters away from a good ground, like the engine block. Now have that friend try to start (crank) the engine. You should see sparks rapidly and strong. If good strong sparks, next step.
  • Replace the coil wire and remove all the spark plug wires (do not want it to start). Using a spare plug or screwdriver, create the situation so you can observe a spark from that wire. Now have that friend try to start (crank) the engine. You should see sparks in time with the compression stroke (so not as many as before) but still strong. If good strong sparks, next step.
  • Pull all the plugs out. Inspect them for fouling or extreme wetness. Validate the gap is correct. If all good, reinstall and next step.
  • Reinstall the plug wires being carful the proper firing order is being followed > in other words the correct wire on the correct plug. If any doubt about this, do internet search.
The above is to validate spark.
Once all reassembled, try to start.
Post results of above testing and questions. Good luck!
Okay latest update: I found your instructions I disconnected the fuel line to the carburetor put a water bottle around it turn the engine over so I could see a constant flow of fuel into the water bottle no problem. Reconnected the fuel line. Now I noticed purple and white wire that comes from the carburetor electronic choke that was going to the alternator that I connected to a terminal upon installing alternator I thought came across my mind. it was not on a hot lead so I moved it to a hot terminal with the purple cable and did notice my electric carburetor was functioning properly now. I turn the engine over and it started right up I was amazed that it was that small of a problem The wire was not getting a positive connection or the gas that I let out from the fuel line could have had water in it so I went to adjust the distributor as to get it timed as good as possible once I did this with the engine running I turned off the key so I could tighten down the distributor cap. Once I did that and try to start it again I couldn't get it to start or even try to start it was like it was not getting any spark at all. I have a quick start cable that I connected to the positive on the starter and the ignition terminal to turn the motor over by myself IE no friends available. Then I disconnected the coil cable and I turned over the motor looked down the carburetor with a flashlight there was no fuel being sprayed, opened the throttle on the carburetor a second time after and did see fuel flowing out of the Jets. No problem. By this time I'm totally discouraged I pulled every spark plug and tried to get a spark from them against the block no spark. I noticed each plug was full of carbon black soot and they were brand new spark plugs I just put in last week. Clean up the spark plugs ran a compression check this time it was 130 PSI but that was with one spark plug out at a time. Took my battery tester light tester I was getting 13 volts to the coil 13 volts to the distributor cap but no voltage to the spark plug even when I turn the motor over or the spark plug wire I'm starting to believe and think that in conclusion it could be the actual distributor has seen its days and if anyone else has any thoughts please let me know I'm in the process of ordering a distributor can't figure out why there's no spark to the plugs anymore any thoughts would be appreciated but I got it running today just didn't stay running and wouldn't restart
 

ESGWheel

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This is good news! It’s now confirmed that the engine can run and run well again. Agree this appears to be in intermittent problem with spark. I do not think the root issue is about electric choke but it’s good to have this wired correctly. Can you post pictures of the distributor electronic parts? Take off the cap and rotor and take a few pictures of the inside. It is likely you have a Petronix electronic ignition and there are a lot of posts in the fourm about issues with Petronix. So, the idea of going to a Points vs electronic seems to valid or try another Petronix module.
 

Dash48

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This is good news! It’s now confirmed that the engine can run and run well again. Agree this appears to be in intermittent problem with spark. I do not think the root issue is about electric choke but it’s good to have this wired correctly. Can you post pictures of the distributor electronic parts? Take off the cap and rotor and take a few pictures of the inside. It is likely you have a Petronix electronic ignition and there are a lot of posts in the fourm about issues with Petronix. So, the idea of going to a Points vs electronic seems to valid or try another Petronix module.
Well I tried to get spark again to the plugs with no avail I did a second multimeter test I have 12 volts going to the coil 12 volts going to the coil plug that goes in the center distributor cap but no spark to the plug wires. I ordered a new distributor based on the specs referencing Volvo Penta 3.0 SX cobra for 4 cylinder Marine distributor EST it will be here on Monday please review the images if you can identify the distributor it will help me to understand what the problem might be also I think the firing order is correct I will watch some videos on how to get the motor top dead center before I stick the new distributor in the motor. I believe the number one cylinder is the first cylinder on a 4 cylinder block to the front correct me if I am wrong
 

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ESGWheel

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Do you have a Multimeter? A better test of the coil is:
  • Disconnect all the wires from the coil including the high-tension lead.
  • Measure the resistance between the (+) and (-) terminals > should read about 1 to 2 Ohms (if 0.5 that is ok too).
  • Measure the resistance between the (+) terminal and the high-tension center socket > should read about 5,000 to 10,000 Ohms.
It’s possible the measurements can be good but the coil is failing under load, typically after they heat up. Since your failures of spark was when still cold it’s a good bet that it is the distributor electronics so glad you have a new one coming. I am not familiar with this style of distributor and I assume it is an “Ignitor” meaning there is not a separate electronic module. Please post the VP Part Number you bought I will look it up.

For the distributor replacement. Since you did have it running and was fine and you did not remove the distributor nor did you rotate but only a couple of degrees, you should be good to do it this easier way: At least try this first and if does not work then need to start from scratch and find TDC of No1.
But before even that, let’s trying something even easier.
Compare the old and new distributor so you know you have the right part. Now inspect the new distributor and see if the electronics are easy to remove. If yes, you may be able to simply swap out the electronics (at least for now) and see if all works. No need to remove the old distributor.

Assuming you do need to replace the distributor, here is easy way:
  1. Disconnect the battery to ensure no power to engine.
  2. With the old distributor (dist.) still installed, remove the cap but leave the rotor installed.
  3. With a marking device (like a sharpie or even a sharp screwdriver to scratch) match mark the base of the dist. and the block. This means if you were to loosen the dist. housing you could use these marks to line it back up exactly.
  4. Next mark the location of the end of the rotor on the dist. housing. Idea is that if you were to hand turn over the engine you could use this mark to place the rotor in the exact same position.
  5. Carefully remove the dist. without turning the housing and notice which way the rotor turns and how much.
  6. Compare the new and old dist. and transfer your marks onto the new dist.
  7. Position the rotor on the new dist. to same location as the old when it was removed (not the mark).
  8. With the dist. housing in the same position as old when removed, carefully insert it and if all is good the rotor will rotate to its mark while the housing is seated and the housing match mark will be aligned as well.
  9. It may take a few tries. Be gentle and just coax it in. Clamp it, put on the cap and give it a start.
Here is the diagram for the firing order and yes, No. 1 is the front one. Since it was running fine, I am sure the Firing Order is correct and the picture looks good as well.
Good Luck!
 

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