Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

[joemamma_222]

Ok all I'm starting this thread to maybe help others and myself !
I have a 1985 trophy with a volvo 250 saltwater series motor and 270 outdrive. I just bought the boat and took her for a spin. I cant get her up on plane though.. I have trim tabs and using them didn;t work either. The boat starts great and idles great. 1100 on the tach.. But I cant get it past 4000 rpm. I believe this motor should be doing somewhere around 5200 rpm. I have a Book that came with thte motor but it doesn't have the volvo 250 in it. THe lower leg is milky and I've drained and refilled with 80/90 wt GL5 gear oil just untill I can get past my rpm problem then I'll tackle the lower unit leak next.
First off here's a list of concerns...
1: Idling too high at 1000-1100 ?
2: Cant get past 4000 rpm.
3: leaky outdrive (willl tackle later) Book doesn;t say which gear oil to use ?
4: Steering is a little eratic floats from side to side. It has a hydraulic sterring system
5: Lower unit will come outta the water in reverse if it's not locked completely in the down position. Is this normal ?

Ok so I have replaced the filter seperator and saw a little water in it. and also added seafoam to the tank. Do you think this could be the low rpm culprit ?
Butterflies are opening all the way and are hitting their stops.
I;d like to tackle these problems in order but any help with any of them would be Great ! I have the Clymer manual up to 1984 volvo and I'm not totally sure if this is a repower or not.

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Have you tried using the the trim (thats the outdrive trim, not the trim tabs)? Put the trim tabs all the way up and when you get to 4000 rpm, trim the drive up.
My guess is you are on plane at 4000 rpm and the bow of the boat is actually being forced down into the water. This will also limit your rpm
The lockdown mechanism for your drive may be worn or out of adjustment.
One of the first things you need to do is get rid of that Clymers manual and get the OEM manuals for your engine and drive.
The 250 engine manual is Volvo PN 7732007
For your drive, you need manual PN 7731624
Not only is that Clymers manual the wrong one, but they are known for all the errors in their info. I think your manual actually gives the wrong firing order for the Volvo 4 cyl. engines.
The 250's were used from 89 to 93, also, the drive that came with the 250's is the SP-A, not the AQ290. Are you sure the drive says 290 on it?
Here is a chart that may help.
Volvo Drive ID Chart

One other thing about water being in your drive, when they kick up in reverse like that, they tend to knock a hole in the top of ujoint bellows. Then water gets into the ujoints, intermediate bearings in the engine bellhousing and on into the drive. So be sure you check that bellows for water SOON. And fix it before it costs you a drive.
Also, get rid of that 80/90 gear lube, it's too thick. The single prop drives should only have 30W engine oil in them.

 

[joemamma_222]

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Thanks for the reply Don !

here's an update... Seafoamed the Tank and replaced the seperator/filter. I'm Up on plane and she's running alot better. I changed the lower unit oil before I went out and it was milky. I put the 80-90 wt in it and will drain again tonght to see how much water got into the drive. (I didnt WOT for very long as I was woried about water intrusion) So I was lacking some RPM to get me on plane.

The Plate on the outdrive is missing so I'm not totally sure what drive I do have. The profile looks to be correct on that Link for the 290 but I'll have to inspect it closer. any other way to tell ? The lockdown mechanism works when the drive is completely down. My Trim switch in the cockpit has a warning light that is red all the time . It will only go OUT if the drive is Fully lowered. (when launching on a boat ramp it gets really close to hitting the Concrete. So I've been pulling the boat off the trailer by hand and getting it to deeper water before lowering the drive all the way. But it is locked when fully lowered and reverse works without it Bucking up...
I checked the driveshaft bellows for any tears or holes and all looks good. The exhaust bellows has a small hole in the bottom of it but I was told that its a drain and its supposed to be there.. So Use straight 30 wt engine oil ? The fill for the oil is behind the cover plate if that gives any clues to the model of the outdrive. I'll be dropping the oil tonight and will fill with 30 wt. (thats straight 30 wt auto oil right ?)

lastly... If I do still have water intrusion...is this going to be like a normal outboard ? Possible watter comming in from :
Prop seal, Shift seal, driveshaft seal, water pump seal ? as the possible causes ?
thanks again !

Hey Don You seem to know quite a bit and I've read the winterizing Post but if my book is bad then I need to get this manifold emptied quick ! My 250 has a res. of antifreeze and a Pump ion the front on the accessorie belt. Can I take those 2 hoses off and blow thru them for winterizing ? and then I imagine there's a drain on the exghaust manifold ? I'm hoping it's as easy as that....(and changing oil and draining outdrive fluid) I may not get my book in time !!

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Ok, you don't have a 290 drive or transom shield, you have either a 270, 275 or 280 and you don't have trim. You have what they call and electro mechanical lift. All it's used for is raising the drive up for trailering. Again, there is no trim on it. You need to run it all the way down so the light goes out so the lockdown mechanism works.
Before you say the bellows is ok, remove the clamp and pull it away from the drive and check for water in it. I see too many of them that leak and you can't really see the hole when it's installed. If it is dry, you need to drain the drive and do a pressure check on it to find the leak.

You engine has both a raw water side and an antifreeze side. You need to drain the raw water side. That is what will freeze. To be honest, I think you need to find a volvo dealer and have them SHOW you how and where to drain your engine, or you are going to be buying a lot of very expensive parts that break when frozen. There is just too many variations on those engines to be able to say where all the drains are, and since it isn't original, who really knows.
And trust me, in the spring time this board is filled with freeze damage posts because people did things wrong.

PS, my day job is a Volvo marine tech, and I have to get back to work now.

 

[joemamma_222]

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Awesome Don ! Thanks man I really appreciate the Info !
Here was a pic on my drive on another thread:
www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3724307

I appreciate the Info like I said but I live in the boonies and we just had our first 32 degree night last night. I need to get this done today !! (It was a last minute boat purchase) I found the raw water inlet comming from the transom to the Impeller on the front of the motor and the other hose comming off the impeller is going to a black tube next to the Antifreeze res. (heat exchanger) The exchanger has a screen in it and from there Not really sure where the raw water goes. I'm good mechanicly and Will give it a go this afternoon with some low pressure air and some mirrors and get to know this motor.
....2 more questions though
1: does an exhaust manifold drain completely when the drain is opened ? or should I be Blowing out ?
2: I dont really see where the oil is cooled. would this be via another heat exchanger ?
I'll be looking for a mechanic in the meantime Don but I gotta get to this today after work...thanks for the warnings... I'll be pulling the whole outdrive after the motor is drained.

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

I looked at your picture, it's a 270 drive, and you definatly do not have power trim.
Here's a diagram of your cooling system. Might want to print it off, I'm running out of room on my picture site and can't leave it on too long.



1- Sea Water strainer
2- Heat Exchanger
3- Sea Water Pump
4- Oil Cooler

I haven't seen one of these engines in years, so I can't tell you exactly where any of the drain plugs are, you will have to trace the system out and find them in each item.
The strainer will empty when you remove the sea water pump cover. I'm fairly sure there is a drain on the heat exchanger for the sea water, same with the oil cooler and exhaust manifold. Check in those copper tubes, some had drains in them in low spots.
When you pull a plug, best to use a wire or small screw driver and probe the hole to make sure it's not blocked. ESPECIALLY on the exhaust manifold.

 

[joemamma_222]

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Don your the best ! Thats exactly what I needed !!!
I'll be preforming the initial Drainout when I get home and will post the results ! I saved the pic too by the way....

Thanks for the OutDrive IDentification too....So I should still be using straight 30 wt oil ?

(On a side note) Do you own a bayliner trophy ?

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Nope, don't have one. Why?

 

[joemamma_222]

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Re: Volvo 250 w/290 outdrive

Ok I thought I saw a bayliner trophy for sale in Alaska on this site with Alaskan bulkheads....Just wanted to see more pics !

anyway thanks again and I'll have more questions to follow Including the Search for the Lower unit leak....
Thanks Again !

 

[joemamma_222]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

Ok for anyone interested !
I got home and found 2 drain Plugs. One was on the oil Heat exchanger and one was on the lowest point of the Exhaust manifold. I loosened the oil Cooler drain first and saw a good ammount of water drain out. I loosened the exhaust manifold Drain next and got a better ammount of water to drain outta there. (Prodding with a wire when the water stopped) I left both drains open.
I took off the cap to the Antifreeze Cup with the strainer in it and I heard a slow "gurgling sound" for about a solid minute. I figured somthing was draining somewhere so I jumped outta the boat ans saw water comming thru the little hole in the leg. The only spot I need to take care of would be the "Inlet" leg of the tubing comming from the transom to the Impeller on the front of the motor. And I think Don said to pull the Impeller cover to drain which will also take care of the Antifreeze cooler ?

Anyway We've got 28 degree's for the low tonight.. I'm going out to drain the leg of it's milky 80/90wt oil (which I know is now wrong Thanks Don !) And Flush it with some 30 wt oil ..

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

I would recommend putting those plugs back in. The threads will get rusty (on the exhaust manifold at least) and cause a lot of problems putting them back in in the spring. Learned that lesson a long time ago
I also just remembered I gave you the part number for a 290 outdrive manual. Won't help you a bit with the 270. You will need manual # 7724371.

I took off the cap to the Antifreeze Cup with the strainer in it and I heard a slow "gurgling sound" for about a solid minute.

There are 2 caps, one on the heat exchanger (that is the one for the antifreeze) the other is a sea water strainer and doesn't have antifreeze in it. That is water tht come in the boat from the drive before it goes to the heat exchanger, oil cooler, etc.
Make sure you did the right one.
Other than that, sounds like you have it covered.

 

[shelikesit]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

my bad

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

Thanks, but no thanks. I can keep up with them as long as I don't need to keep some of the big ones too long.

PS: Can't you stop that computer graphic, it makes my cursor jump and is really distracting when trying to type.

 

[am_dew]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

Joe, if you do in fact have a 270 drive, I am pretty sure you should be using either 30W or 10-30W oil in it, and not 80/90 gear lube.

 

[joemamma_222]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

Thanks AM Dew.. Thats what the Link said that don said. It said to Use the same as your engine oil.
I do think there's a possibility that I may have a 280 drive though. In my Crappy Clymer shop manual it states that on the 200 and 270 models to fill the lower unit thru the Oil fill at the rear of the intermediate housing.
The model 280 instructions say to take off Upper drive cover and get to the hidden oil fill plug. Mine is hidden by the Cover plate on the drive. Possibility I may have the 280 ?

Hey Don you said " There are 2 caps, one on the heat exchanger (that is the one for the antifreeze) the other is a sea water strainer and doesn't have antifreeze in it. That is water tht come in the boat from the drive before it goes to the heat exchanger, oil cooler, etc.
Make sure you did the right one.
Other than that, sounds like you have it covered. "

What do you mean by caps ? The antifreeze pressure cap wasn't removed but the seawater strainer cap was are those the caps ? Pluss my Drainplugs are still on but loosened...they are Barbed brass tube fittings that could take a neoprene tube or somthing . But Otherthan that can I leavem open but still on ?

(just reread your post it was the seawater strainer cap !! )
Thanks all !
I'll recap some of my problems stated in the first post here still have a couple of unsolved mysteries....
thanks again !
Joe in Ohio

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

See that flapper on the lower unit just behind the prop? Trust me, you have a 270.

 

[joemamma_222]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

ok 10-4 Don !

On a recap of my problems...:
1: Idling too high at 1000-1100 ?
2: Cant get past 4000 rpm.
3: leaky outdrive (willl tackle later) Book doesn;t say which gear oil to use ?
4: Steering is a little eratic floats from side to side. It has a hydraulic sterring system
5: Lower unit will come outta the water in reverse if it's not locked completely in the down position. Is this normal ?

1: I found the Idle should be 600 to 800 (here on Iboats)
2: the 4000 RPM issue seemed to be Low Octane and water in fuel.
3: leaky outdrive- Can anyone list the leading causes of a leaky lower unit ?.... I'll be digging into it tonight and will try and get some more info outta the book Can I pressure test this just like a regular outboard motor ? And is there an impeller keyed into the Driveshaft between the upper and lower housing ? I know as with outboards the Waterpump has a seal on the bottom of the housing that usually leaks. and there's also a shifter seal that usually leaks on the outboard motors too. So Any ideas where to start ? Take the lower leg off and pressure test ?

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

1: I found the Idle should be 600 to 800 (here on Iboats)
What engine was that for, or was it an average of all the idle speeds mentioned, it should be 900rpm. If you had other than a Clymers you would know that.

2: the 4000 RPM issue seemed to be Low Octane and water in fuel.
Possible, may also need a complete tuneup

3: leaky outdrive- Can anyone list the leading causes of a leaky lower unit ?.... I'll be digging into it tonight and will try and get some more info outta the book Can I pressure test this just like a regular outboard motor ?

Yes, pressure test it, evey seal exposed to water is a possibility of leaking and I have had to replace them all at one time or another. Did you ever disconnect the bellows from the front of the drive and look for water? Not just look for tears in the bellows, you can't see everywhere anyway and with the drive kicking up, you probably have a very small cut in the top of the bellows and the bellows will be clear full of water.
Then drain the drive and pressure test it on the boat.
Don't start taking things apart till you get a real manual. This is NOT an outboard.

And is there an impeller keyed into the Driveshaft between the upper and lower housing ?

No, the raw water pump is on the front of your engine, remember? You just drained it!

 

[joemamma_222]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

lol I know I jsut drained it !! lol Didn;y know if there might be 2 of em !
OK Manual is hopefully on it;s way !
Clymer is going on ebay..

The normal engine Idle I was seeing was 600 to 800 this is a Volvo 4cylinder 250 saltwater series motor.

Pressure testing it while on the boat:
On my outboard I used an old valve stem and threaded it into the Lube drain hole in the bottom of the leg.
Can I add pressure in the Dip Stik hole on this 270 outdrive ? Or do I treat it the same as an outboard and add pressure to the Lube drain hole ?

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo 250 w/270 outdrive

The normal engine Idle I was seeing was 600 to 800 this is a Volvo 4cylinder 250 saltwater series motor.

Well, where ever it came from, it's wrong. The Volvo OEM service manual states 900. Every Volvo 4 cyl. with the OHC was between 850 and a 1000.

As far as pressure testing, sure use the dipstick hole.